SPEAKER_00 0:00

I hate that it's called artificial intelligence. I think it's wrong. Right. Say more. So I think it should be called augmented intelligence because especially when you're working with a system like what we built or ChatGPT, OpenAI, Claude, whatever you're using, right? It's kind of like putting on your super suit. It just makes you stronger, smarter, faster, better because that's what it's meant to do. It's not the solution to everything. Like this AI slot that's out there actually drives me nuts. These people who are just like creating these really great memes. I mean, come on, dude. You know, AI built that and they suck in their spelling errors, contextual issues, but they're not compliant, but whatever. Right. So I really believe that it's an augmentation. And I think that's what they wanted it to be. But now people are just getting really, really super lazy with it. But what you said is 100% true. First off, it's in almost everything, even if you don't know it. And if you know how to use it, I believe you can have a better practice and a better life.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show where financial planning meets human understanding. As an exceptional financial advisor, you know that financial planning is about more than just numbers. It's about giving clients the clarity they need to align their money with what matters most. Which is why each episode is designed with that goal in mind. You'll learn how to uncover the psychology behind client decisions and gain insights and behavioral strategies needed to create deeper, more meaningful client relationships. You'll discover techniques for navigating emotional client situations, drawing from conversations with leading industry experts in behavioral finance, psychology, communication, and more. Whether it's mastering discovery meetings, handling sensitive client conversations, or understanding what is truly keeping your client stuck, you will walk away with not only strategies that you can use in your next client meeting, but also the confidence to do so. Oh yeah, hi. I should probably introduce myself. I'm your host, Ashley Kwamey, a therapist who somehow wandered into the world of financial behavior and kind of decided to stay. My mission is to help you bridge the gap between financial planning and human understanding. Because remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do. Let's dive in. Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the podcast where financial planning meets human understanding. I am joined today by my friend. I'm pretty sure we're BFFs at this point.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

I'm pretty sure. And our conversation, pre-record conversation, I think solidifies that we are BFFs. I'm joined by my BFF, Matt Halloran, chief evangelist of socks. Matt, let's go, buddy. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Good. I'm glad that you're happy to be here. And I know that this is going to be a great conversation. You've already been a guest on Planning and Beyond episode 25, where we talked about your book. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you remember writing a book?

SPEAKER_00 3:09

I do. Yeah. It's shameless plug right out of the gate. If you want to buy a book, you should buy this book.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

You can buy the book and then listen to episode 25, or you can listen to episode 25 and then go buy the book. But either way, you should do both because they're fantastic. And in that episode, just to give a little teaser, we talked about listening. Your book talked about how you can be, how advisors can be a better listener. Um, and it's fantastic. You should go and check it out. Today, there's a little bit of that listening that we're gonna actually, it's interesting, probably not ironic, that there will, you know, come listening will come up. I'm sorry, I'm having like an ADHD moment and Matt, you'll appreciate this, but Alanis Morset is coming to mind for me right now. Isn't it ironic? Yeah. So can you say ironic without thinking about Alanis Morset?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

In fact, I'm gonna tell you this. This is really funny. I was just talking to another podcasting friend a couple of days ago, and she's like, I only think in song lyrics. So like I said something, and she's like, do, do, do, doo. And I was like, Well, what just happened? She's like, Oh, that was the song. I was like, I know the song. So anyway, now I'm right there with you, sis.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yes, yeah, uh, that is that is how my brain operates, is in song lyrics. And so I was wondering, should I start singing right now in this moment, or should I just like get back on track?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

I'm all for that. I think that's great.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

And do my job here.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Well, you could drop a little, you know, you could drop a clip.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Isn't it ironic?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Yeah, and post. Now you don't have to.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Now I don't have to because I just did it. I hope I don't get copyrighted or anything for doing that. Probably not. So today, Matt, let's have a conversation. You in your newer role as Chief of Angels at Sox, you have been on this mission that I've that I've been watching around how to have a better practice, how to be a better human, and how AI, how that can support that. And I really love that because one, it just goes hand in hand with what we talk about here on the show. And so if you're game for it, I want to dive into all of those things. Let's maybe just start kind of high level, kind of like to take like the 30,000-foot like overview, right? Like first, and then we can just dive straight in, like helicopter landing onto like the football field. Okay. Let's talk a little bit about just what you're seeing practice management-wise, maybe why this is kind of your mission, too, where this like came from, around having a better practice, being a better human, and how AI can support that. I'm gonna shut up and let you just kind of take the reins here.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

So it's very weird, my course professionally, because like from a 30,000-foot view, you're you're like, dude, he's jumping all over the place, you know, podcast guy, practice management guy, life coach guy, social media guy, listening guy. But it really did coalesce because what I found here when I was pitching myself as the chief evangelist to Zox, they kept saying that, you know, we give advisors 10 hours a week back in their week. And I was like, so what are they gonna do with that time? And they were like, okay, do that. Right. And so, and so my whole thing, since I've been here by a little over six months now, has really been trying to create as much content as I can, doing as many interviews as I can to really flesh that out. Because here's the deal I wrote my first article in Horse's Mouth in uh 2007. I have it over there, and it was about the human connection. So I came from my background. For those of you who don't know, I was a therapist before I got into financial services as a consultant. And I was actually hired as a life coach for financial advisors for a company called Peak, which is now Carson Consulting. So I was their life coach for quite a while, actually, even then. But advisors' lives is totally neglected in the practice management world, actually. It drives me crazy. And so Kitsis came out with the thing a little while ago that said 70% of advisors' time is spent doing non-client-facing things. And so now we're solving that. We're getting that to like 20%. Just so you know, we're actually statistically able to prove that through research in very large organizations that we're really reducing that amount of what we call invisible work. So, what are they gonna do? Well, I'm gonna digress for a moment because you know I'm gonna do that through the show. I was just at the wealth management edge conference, which, if you're a financial advisor, that's one that should be on your list. Unbelievable content, unbelievable networking. And I was sitting next to this rather young guy, and he was a young guy, right? And so he was, you know, beating his chest. I'm so smart and so strong and everything like that. And I said, Do you have a therapist? And he was like, He's like, What? I was like, How do you know yourself? Like, have you done any work on yourself? I mean, he didn't stay long. But I bring that up because what we've been able to distill here at Docs is there are things that you should do. I'm not saying that you take 10 hours a week and go to therapy, even though some of you might really need that work. What I'm saying is peel off an hour. And I'm not saying maybe you don't have to go to the therapist, maybe you get a life coach, maybe you get a spiritual director, maybe you get a nutritionist, maybe you get a physical trainer, maybe you become a better husband, a better wife, a better son, a better, you know, whatever. Work on yourself. You're given a gift. And I believe this to my core that AI is the biggest revolution in financial services since modern portfolio theory. And what it's giving you back is one of the things that you ever can't ever make more of, which is time.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah, it's so true. It's so true.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Okay. So AI is here to stay. I hope everyone that's listening knows what AI is. I don't think we need to break that down. I think for my assumption, right, is that we all well.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Actually, hold on. Because here's the funny thing. I hate that it's called artificial intelligence. I think it's wrong. Oh, say more. So I think it should be called augmented intelligence because especially when you're working with a system like what we built or ChatGPT, open AI, Claude, whatever you're using, right? It's kind of like putting on your super suit. It just makes you stronger, smarter, faster, better because that's what it's meant to do. It's not the solution to everything. Like this AI slot that's out there actually drives me nuts. These people who are just like creating these really great memes. I mean, come on, dude. You know, AI built that and they suck in their spelling errors, contextual issues, and they're not compliant, but whatever. Right. So I really believe that it's an augmentation. I think that's what they wanted it to be. But now people are just getting really, really super lazy with it. But what you said is 100% true. First off, it's in almost everything, even if you don't know it. And if you know how to use it, I believe you can have a better practice and a better life.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

So let's maybe talk kind of from there. What are you saying as far as how advisors are using it in a way that is giving them more time or helping them to be a better human?

SPEAKER_00 10:09

One of the most frustrating things that used to happen to me as a therapist was note-taking.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Oh, listen, we will be here for hours. I just got triggered.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

And I have found a lot of my, it probably doesn't surprise you a lot of my friends are therapists, uh, mostly because I need it. But two, I like hanging out with people who are wildly insightful and want to have deep conversations, and therapists really tick those boxes. And I brought it up to them. I was like, hey, uh, so if you like had this thing in the background that took notes, and most of them said, Well, I wouldn't stop taking notes. I just wouldn't have to take such feverish notes. So I was, I'm afraid I'm gonna miss something. And this is what happened to me when I was a therapist was I'd write something down and I missed. I missed what they said because I was freaking writing it down. And so that's a huge piece. So note-taking is the foundation of what the teams built here at Zox. But once you have those notes, what we do is we create structured data. And that structured data then can be applied in lots of different ways. Like we have two integrations. So you have your wealth.com, you've got your e-money, you've got your right capital, you've got your CRM. So, Ashley, you're a client of mine, which you wouldn't be, because I would be a terrible financial advisor. We've had that discussion privately before, but so I'm your financial advisor, we're having conversations. After the conversation, it structures the data. We don't record anything. So it's live transcription, big difference between us and some of the other people. And then what happens is it pumps out this summary. And then it will say, Hey, Ashley said she's having seven more children. She bought three more houses, she inherited $8 million, uh, won three lotteries, and she wants to give $7 million to dogs in need. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Sounds like Ashley.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Yeah, that's not bad. It will say, Do you want to update right capital? Do you want to update your financial plan? Do you need to update your wealth.com, your estate plan. She just said that she's adopting children. We should have the names of those children she named, and now those are in your CRM from one conversation. So, what that does for advisors is that helps them prep. And that's the other thing I wish I had as a therapist, sister. Could you imagine being able to walk into your client meeting and it's like, oh damn, this is what we talked about.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

This was the things I told that, you know, she needed to work instead of my large paper file and with the binder clips. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yes. And so now advisors are able to be way more prepared, which I believe, and this is really why it's, you know, beyond the plan, is they can be more present. Yeah. We're hearing from our clients, and I'm I'm gonna be fully transparent here. I'm hearing this from people who are using note takers specifically, not necessarily just Zocks, that it just relieves so much pressure and stress that when they're walking in, they're like, Oh my God, I, you know, God, if I don't say this, if I don't say this, or my God, I can't remember who's that person. You know, that we all have that experience. They're walking in with a level of calm, a level of confidence that changes the conversation. And here's the deal we're finding that it increases referrals. Because people are like, man, man, Ashley was like zoned in and she remembered my seventh dog sister's name. You know, I mean, that's the sort of stuff. And I just I'm gonna tell you a story. You know that I do this, so you can tell me stop whenever you want. I like all your stories. So this is my favorite one, and it's from a guy named Rex here. So Rex is one of our top salespeople. Love this guy, he's really, really good at his job. And I was watching him present at one of the conferences, and he told the story. It has now gone down in history as the chicken story, and I have now stolen it because you know I have chicken, so I have an affinity to chicken. Yes, you have to. So this woman was taking over from the primary advisor. So she was his succession plan, and they and she was meeting for the first time alone with their biggest client. And he walked in and he was distraught, right? And she was like, What's going on, Jim? You know, you look distraught. And he's like, My daughter, and he named his daughter, her favorite chickens in the hospital and named the chicken. Okay. And so the advisor was like, Wow, okay. You know, I'm sorry, she was great, right? I'm sorry, you know, oh my gosh, you know, I hope the chicken's okay. I hope your daughter's okay. And then they got to business, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

But Zax picked up because of the tone of his voice, Zax picked up that that was an important thing because you know as well as I do, the first thing they say to you in therapy or the first thing they say to you in the climate is the most important thing to them at the time. And so Zax suggested as a task, as a recommended task, to send the daughter with the name a care package for the chicken. Oh, I'm gonna cry. So she's like, I'm gonna give it a shot. And so she went ahead in their chicken care packages, just so everybody knows. She sent to the daughters, got the daughter's address, got the name of the chicken, sent the chicken care package. Dad called right after the back. I can't believe you did that for my daughter. I didn't even think that you remembered that. Not only did she totally 100% land and get the biggest client, she also got the daughter. And it's those little things that we gloss over because, oh my God, compliance tells me I've got to talk about their RMDs and I've got to talk about their life insurance policy and their beneficiaries change and you know, all of these things, but it's the beyond the plan. That's where everything happens. That's where you get more referrals, you have a better quality of life. You know, your clients are happier and you're happier as an advisor.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

What's coming up for me as I'm listening is a quote. And I know that you've heard this, and it's true. It's true in, I think just life. It's really just true in every relationship, but particularly for industries like, you know, finances, even in mental health. And the saying, the quote, is people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Right. And so what's coming up for me is that quote, and how AI helps you to be more human, like that is the perfect example like of that, right? Because it allows in the story, right, the advisor to connect like human to human, right, through the assistance of AI, but show you know that level of humanness. And that is a memory that that client will have forever. If we're like, you know, going back to Sandlot right here, having a Sandlot moment. Forever. Like that is a memory that that client will have forever. I want to talk a little bit about a little bit more, right? Kind of about this idea of being human, right, in a meeting, because what you're saying here reigns so true for me. I know I said I got triggered. Like when I was in my practicum. So for those that don't know, like a practicum is when you're in graduate school and you're learning how to be a therapist. Think of it maybe like an internship, if you will, very similar to that. But we had in our program old school to or one-way mirror, one-way mirror with the phone that sat in between you and your co-therapist and the rest of your practicum team and practicum instructor in the back watching, definitely eating popcorn for sure. And I remember we were meeting my my um co-therapist, her name was Ashley as well. Um, that wasn't confusing. We were we were in a couples meeting and I was taking, I was taking notes. And I remember the phone rang. And I used to get excited when the phone rang because I liked feedback. I know I was weird in that way. And I remember my practicum instructor, she said, put the pin down. That was all she said. That was all she said. And I was like, uh, but uh like there were so many things like going through my head. Like, what if I miss this? And what if I miss that? And she just said, put the pin down and just be with them. And I put the phone down. Of course, I'm gonna do what she says. She's grading me. I put the pen down and I was, I was there. I was just listening. I was present. And fast forward, right, kind of through much of my career. Like I still would write and like take notes, but would definitely oftentimes catch myself like not being present. Now, I had the awareness skills to know, like, hey, I'm not being very present like in this moment, and I need to put that aside. But a lot of people don't, understandably so. What I love about meeting note takers is exactly like what you were talking about here, Matt, which is it allows us to be more fully present. And so let's talk a little bit about like just presence, like in general. I know you said that it helps generate like, you know, referrals, it lands like clients, but that is really the essence here of being human. So, what is it that you guys are seeing here? Like, what are maybe the nitty-gritty, like granular things around being human that you're finding that note takers really like allow you to do and be?

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Well, I do want to clarify something because you already clarified it. So I just want to kind of amplify that a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Let's double clarify.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yeah. You still should have a pad of paper and you still should have a pen. And there's a reason for this, there's a psychological reason this for on both sides of the table. Right. Number one, it's good for you to make a note just because then you can go back and say, you know, hey, about 10 minutes in, they said something. So that's for you. So that's for you as the advisor. But it also is a very strong psychological trigger for the client to show that you're listening and what they said you thought was important enough to write down. Because if you're just sitting there like, you know, hands crossed, legs crossed, you know, nodding, you know, that stupid active listening crap that you know I hate, that's performative, right? But this is an opportunity for you to go ahead and and and do that. So the other big thing that we're finding is it's a really so for the human component of it is it's a really good checks and balance. I was at a the LAMP conference, which is a life insurance, basically like all of the execs for life insurance companies go and they learn and network and all of those things. So this guy came up to me because I was doing interviews, which I do at a lot of conferences, and he said, Well, you're interviewing people. And I was like, Well, that doesn't usually happen. So I was like, Yeah, I am. And he's like, I've got a great story about using Zox. And I was okay. So I didn't even ask him what it was because he was so excited about it. And as a person who does interviews, if I can get you in the excited state, I want to get you on camera as quickly as possible. Yeah. Right. And so we found a quick place and I got my stuff set up and I was like, okay, hey, you know, man, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah you know, hey, what's your story? And he said, I'm wildly competitive. And I was like, Oh, okay, let's see where this goes here. So in the upper right hand corner of our system, it gives you a score on talk time. Open-ended questions. Some of this could they're it's called insights, right? He's like, I got 100%. Oh, he's competitive. I was like, first off, I didn't know that was possible, right? But what he did was he realized that according to our system, and I don't actually know the algorithm behind it, but there is a sweet spot with how much you're supposed to be talking versus how much the client's supposed to be talking, and how you answer the questions and how you're showing that you're listening with rephrasing, reframing, and redirection, things like that. He scored 100%. He said, My first one, I scored 20%. Oh, because all I did was talk the whole time. Good for him. Yes. And it's funny because the gamification of listening, which is something you actually, you and I actually talked about this quite a while ago. But the gamification of listening, the gamification of proving you're more human, the gamification of showing you're paying attention is. Changing the industry, right? It changed that dude's practice. And he's like, Matt, I strive to be 100% every time now. And I was like, Well, how do you do that? And he's like, When I feel like I have to say something, I stop for a moment. I'm like, all right, here we go. You know, this is that reset. Exactly what you were just talking about. This that reset. Yep. And now he doesn't do it. So when you look at being more human, you don't need to be more intelligent.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Oh, I love that distinction. Oh, hold on. Oh, I love that distinction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

People already assume because they're in your office, you know your stuff. And somebody had asked me, I did a couple of interviews at the edge conference, and they said, you know, the question's always, you know, what is the biggest shift that you see in financial services? Because everybody's talking about that, right? AI revolution, blah, blah, blah. And my answer has been pretty consistent because what advisors have been hanging their hat on, since I've been doing this, I've been doing this for 20 years now. What advisors have been hanging their hat on is my planning process. I'm, you know, I'm amazing portfolios. My client service model is better than anybody else's. I have more frequent meetings. You know, guess what? Those are all table stakes now, guys.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

And I mean that with sincerity and love for all of you. What you have always leaned on, which now is this amplification that needs to happen, is the relationship, which is why, you know, I love you. And I'm sure everybody knows that I'm a huge fan of yours. I love your content. I love who you are. I love what you do for advisors. But this is the time to lean on people like Ashley so that you can start learning the other aspects of these skills that many of you already have. You just don't know how to practice them.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Yeah. And that's what we talk about, that, right? Like these are skills, and everyone has the capacity and capability of doing and learning it. And what's so fantastic is that, you know, AI note takers, right, really can provide the education to being able to learn that. So interesting story. This happened actually recently. You're gonna love this. So I was on a, I was on a call with so with one of our clients, with one of the firms that we worked for. And we were on a co-facilitated meeting with a newer client. And so don't know this couple like that well. Actually, it was the second time I'd met them, and I think maybe even like the third time that the advisor had met them. And so we go through the call. It's more of an information, just kind of gathering, you know, call larger client there. So stakes are, you know, a little high, but also there's a great deal of complexity where I would probably need to be brought in a little bit more for it. So anyway, okay, so we get through the meeting and the advisor were debriefing after. And he's like, Ashley, like, I don't know if it's because I've been in a lot of meetings today and I'm really tired. He said, But you remember when client like said like this and this, like, how did you take that? And what did they say exactly? Because I don't know if I'm just a little tired, but like I might be misinterpreting like what they were saying. And I was like, ooh, here's how I was taking that. But we need to go back and just check the transcript for exact like verbiage here. But also then we just talked about that, like, hey, you're tired. And this is so great to have like a note taker to lean back on, you know, to kind of give that feedback because, and I remember this. There were often times, Matt, when I would be meeting with clients. And I, because of my own stuff, right? Whatever was going on for me like that day, I was exhausted. I was tired, I was a little moody, or maybe I was feeling really great, or this part of me for fixing, right? That writing rate was really strong. Sometimes I would misinterpret things or think a client said something. And I would have that like battle in my head of, I think this is what they said. Did they say it like this? How did they say it? What was the sequence of you know, statements here? And I wish that I had had a note taker. I wish that I'd had something in those meetings with me that could at least help me check myself, right? So that I'm not leaving with a misinterpretation or feeling butthurt, like some type of way. And then, then, and maybe I did this, I'm sure, maybe I probably did. Then my response, right? I would be responding then based on how I perceived it, maybe, and that may not have been accurate. So I just thought it was interesting that here this advisor and I, we were debriefing, right? And it was a relief to know we had another partner in the room, a little bit of help there to clarify for us, right? And, you know, it was a sigh of relief here, right? So this very timely story. I'm glad that we're talking about this right now because I actually haven't shared that with anyone. Okay, so I love sharing stories and I love talking. But here's what I want to shift to. We talked about at the beginning advisors having more time. Like you said that, and it was like a ooh, I like that. What do we do with that time? How, how do we, and you know, you talked about, you know, going to therapy or just doing other things, getting a nutritionist, lots of lots and lots of other things. Let's talk a little bit about when we have more time, how we can utilize that. What are you seeing that advisors who are, you know, getting more time back? Like, what are they doing that's helpful for them? Because I would imagine there's a trap.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Oh, there's a trap.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Yeah. And that trap, I think, is probably not helpful, not helping them to be more human.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yeah, it's very, very interesting. Two shameless plugs. Our podcast is called Better Practice, Better Life, Human First with AI. And that's the whole goal of the show is to interview financial services professionals and people in the industry to not only talk about what they've done with this time they've gotten back, but also me bringing people to advisors who specialize in either helping them figure out what to do or giving them stuff to do. So that's that's what it is. But my new keynote speech is called Um AI is not the problem, change is. And so for everything in you want in life, you have to be willing to give up something proportionate to that want. And you can give up five things, in my opinion: time, talents, treasures, relationships, and control. Okay. So we're giving you back the only thing you can't more of. You can get more relationships, you can get more treasures, you can get smarter, right? And you can, well, many people have control issues, but you can manage control. But the one thing you can't get back is time. And so I do a lot of these interviews at conferences, and I ask, you know, how do you think AI is changing the industry? And, you know, they have some sort of answer. And then I say, Hey, I just gave you 10 hours back in your week. What would you do? And it's a very, very difficult answer for people to have because some people are, I'd prospect more. Okay, really, dude? Seriously? Okay, so here's the deal. In financial services, and Ashley, we both deal with this a lot because you and I have existed in the world of gray. That's where we live. I like gray. Right? We don't live in the world of black and white. We live, and this is a musical lyric by a band named Live. We live in the beauty of gray. Look it up if you don't know what it is. So advisors will think I've got 10 hours a week, I would just spend 10 hours, you know, prospecting more. I've got to spend 10 hours researching. I've got to spend no, no, no, no, no. That's my whole challenge is peel off one. So we're giving your office a week of time back every month, every month. And that by just so you know, that's on the low end. We actually have a RFG advisory is a big client of ours. I talked to Shannon Spotswood a little while ago, and she said, Matt, it's more like 12 to 14 hours. Oh snap. Oh my God, right? So you look at that, we're we'll just say 10, just because it's easy math. So we just give you 40 hours back in your month. What can you do? Okay. So should you prospect more? Sure. Should you do more research and be a better financial advisor? Absolutely. Should you educate yourself, get more talent? Absolutely. Should you learn how to rescind a little bit of control? Because you have to do that using AI anyway. Because I've had people come up to me, well, the output's not perfect. Of course it's not. Are you perfect? Really? Do you think you're perfect? Because if so, I got a therapist you should talk to. Relationships. I want to lean into relationships because relationships can take lots of forms. Hey, maybe you take one hour a month and you mentor a junior advisor. Maybe you take two hours a month and your team goes feeds the homeless. And this is going to sound shamelessly promoting too. But I literally did a TED talk on this called Hope, Happy Person Every Day. And there are three sorts of hope. You can do something kind, you can say something kind, or you can be present for somebody who needs it. And so you look at that, and Ashley, that's why I'm saying all of this just seems to have coalesced into a, I mean, working for an AI company who really fundamentally realizes that our product is so damn good that we can start talking about all of this other stuff that is way more impactful overall, which is you're gonna have a better practice and a better life.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Yeah, I am hopeful that for those that are listening that are using, well, we all know that they're everyone's using AI to some, as you said, AI is everywhere in some form or fashion, but intentionally using it and you know, receiving the benefit of time back. My hope would be is that advisors are using that to better the relationship with themselves. And those were fantastic examples like that you gave, right? There's some team building stuff, the mentoring. Like those are all like really, really small ways, you know, to do. I know for me, because I'm in a busier season of life right now with kids and like business, there's a selfish part of me that I know it's not selfish, but there's a selfish part of me that's like, you know what? My walks would get a little bit longer during the day.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

I would be out in the garden a lot more. I want dirty fingernails. That sounds my poor husband. I want to come in with dirty fingernails and feel like, you know, that's what I would want. I'd want to learn more, you know, about lots of things, right? But just to be able to take some of that and put back into myself, because so much of this job, here's what maybe for those of you that are listening, maybe you already know this. I'm gonna say it just in case it's not obvious or you don't know. So much of your work is about you bringing yourself to it. Like that is really the work here is you bringing you like to it. And if you are not full, if you are not the best, you or even just okay. If you're just not like okay enough, you the work starts to suffer. Right. And I think the breakdown, I'd love to hear actually your thoughts on this. I think the breakdown starts actually at the relational level, missing calls, delayed responses, you know, things that start to break down and erode, right? This relational equity that you've probably built up here. But with this time, like, oh my goodness, if you could just pour a little bit more into yourself, I don't know. I think the relationship would get better.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Well, so I'm a philosophy major. That was my undergrad. And so, first off, I just realized that nobody's ever really right and nobody ever can really win an argument, which was really important. Because you know, we thought we would win and then our professor would destroy us. But you know, Socrates, Plato, pretty much every major philosopher, including late later ones, like all of these people, the whole goal was to know who you are, right? Because if you have that as your starting point, then now you can start interacting with the world successfully. Because if you don't know how you perceive the world, then you won't be able to actually interact with the world to the fullest. Yeah. Right. And so it was so funny. I had my undergraduates in communications and actually applied ethics is what my actual bachelor's degree is in. My grandfather told me there are the two most leaningless degrees you're ever gonna get, and you're never gonna get a job.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

Come on, grandpa, come on.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

But I found out after he passed that communications was his biter and philosophy was his major. Uh, and he was very successful by the way. He's a professor uh at Calemazoo College here in town. He taught the history of psychology, studied with B.F. Skinner. I mean, he was a pretty good guy, but I have always found that that philosophy underpinning has always really helped because I spent an enormous amount of time with that. But I think advisors think their clients like them or work with them for the wrong reason, Ashley. Because they think that they're so smart and they've got all this alphabet soup after their name and they've done all of these systems and all of this process, and they've had EOS come in and they're running a great business, but they like you, they trust you. I remember coming home from work, I just started in financial services and then 08 happened. So I'd been there for about a year, year and a half, and then 08 happened. And my whole job was to just call all of my clients. Hey, are you okay? I mean, like every day I possibly could get to every one of them. And I remember coming home and sitting down with my wife and saying, man, I had these people all wrong. I thought you thought they were greedy, money hungry, you know, status seeking. And I would have advisors crying on the phone with me. Matt, I failed my clients, which nobody handled that great. We all know that, right? But the amount of responsibility that all of you have should not ever be taken lightly. And you need to remind yourself that your clients are giving most of you 75% of their overall money. Very few of you have 100%. If you think you do, you're wrong. History has shown that, right? But they trust you. And you know what? They also care. When I was at Proudmouth, one of the things Kirk and I always used to talk about to accelerate your influence is what we call the four-to-one rule. And it was based off behavioral psychology. For every uh one piece of negative feedback that you had to give, you had to give four pieces of positive feedback. And so I took that and I deconstructed. And I was like, for four pieces of professional content, you need to have one piece of personal content. And I post all the time, you know, that's my job here. But man, when I post something about myself, it blows up because people love Ashley, right? People love you, listener, and lean into that a little bit. Now, please remember polite conversation, no sex, no drugs, no politics, no religion. That's my grandmother always used to tell me, those are the things you don't want to bring up. But just give people a little bit of a glimpse of who you are. And they're gonna love you even more. They're gonna find more connection points. So one of the things that I I want to make sure that this is not just preachy. I want to give every one of your clients a little bit of value. So so here's a couple of things I want you to consider when you have this time back so that you can let's just be real, you can make some more money. All right. So the number one thing I want you to do with these 40 hours you get back in your month, right? But your 10 hours a week is I want you, and by the way, you can do this with our system. You can ask questions to our AI. And I want you to ask questions like, how many people love to get their hands done? How many people love to garden? Because you probably talked about that because you need to apply conversation to be. Well, we know Ashley and 10 of her friends really like to garden, right? So, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna hold a client event. So, friends of ours who run a company called Event Advisors, they have something called return on moments, which is their how they position how powerful in-person events are gonna be. Bring in a master gardener on there. Just go ahead and announce it to your whole book of business, even though you're gonna focus on these people who you've already identified, because our system will pull that list for you and say, hey, look, we're bringing in this master gardener from the local garden shop. She's gonna be talking about this, this, this, this. You know, we've got 50 seats available. Bring a friend if you want. It's Thursday night from seven to nine, and we'll have, you know, some light hors d'oeuvres. Maybe you like pickleball. Hey, we're bringing in a pickleball coach to do like a, and I they do this in golf. I don't know if you think about pickleball, how you're swinging. Yes. Right? Because you know, swing coaches they have in golf.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Clayton did this. Yeah, his firm did this with an amateur, yeah, golfer.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

So those are the little things. And because if you're using something like Zocks and you can just ask the question and all of a sudden get this populated answer of opportunities in your book of business to generate more goodwill, great events. I just personally think that there isn't anything better because it also is beyond the plan. It is being more human. It's you sitting there being you with your clients.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

You know, as we're sadly wrapping up, what I love about you, what I love about us, BFF, is that you kind of teed up what I was gonna ask you, which is if there's one piece of advice that you could give our listeners, if you could give advisors to help them be more human, what would that be? Maybe your answer is different.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

No, it isn't. It it's actually in-person events. And I'll I'll give you a couple of other reasons why. Number one, it's one of the greatest ways you can grow your business. Doesn't happen immediately, you have to be patient, but it is one of the greatest ways to grow your business. But here's the other thing people are lonely. That's it. You bring people together who like the same stuff, and you're the one, Ashley's the one who did it. They're always gonna remember. Ashley brought the master gardener in. And oh my God, I learned about, you know, really how to really properly store bulbs that don't let me ever last. You know, that's the sort of simple stuff. Yeah, right. Or man, I keep getting this blight on my tomatoes every time I do it. I was able to ask, and now I have great tomatoes. They're crediting you, they don't probably not gonna remember the master gardener because you were the person who brought it there. I love that. Now, you can also use this system, by the way, just to be abundantly clear, for compliance. Like, hey, did everybody get their RMDs done last year? It'll tell you, sure, right? How many people did I not communicate with last year that I needed to, because good Lord knows people fall through the cracks. And then all the way to the point of can you help me build a new service calendar? And by the way, it'll actually implement it into our system in order to make it so that those things don't fall through the cracks. This is the biggest change in financial services since modern portfolio theory. And I believe that you are magnificently positioned. And I think you're gonna get really busy. I already know you're pretty busy, but I know you're gonna get more busy because advisors are gonna look at the time that they're getting back and they're gonna say, I wanna be a better person to my clients. And I think your system, your education, what you bring to advisors can really help with that.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Yeah. All of that is fantastic, fantastic information. Matt, thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom. If people want more Matt Talerant in their life, and I don't know why anyone would not, but if they would want more Matt in their life, where can they find you? Where can they connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 41:34

I mean, LinkedIn really is the best place. I'm I'm starting to experiment with Instagram a little bit more because like you're there and I know you're really active there. Um, and I've got a couple of other my friends who are more active there. So I'm on almost every social media platform. My Facebook is personal, so you probably won't find me there. But LinkedIn is really it. And I'm also probably see you at conferences. Like if you heard the podcast and you want to chat, I'd love to have a conversation with you about this. But I live on LinkedIn, that's really a huge component of my job, a very large network there. And if I send you a connection request, I'm not ever gonna try to sell you anything. I'm just trying to hopefully have you see that you can have a better practice and a better life. I know I sound like a broken record there, but Ashley, I've been talking about this for 20 freaking years.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

I love it. I love it. It reminds me of if you're a Ted Lasso fan, the Roy Kent song, he's here, he's there, he's every wear. Matt Batherin. Matt Batherin. We'll be sure to include all of those links in the show notes there. Matt, thank you for coming on. Thank you for sharing all of your wisdom. And thank you to all of you for allowing Matt and I into your ears and into your mind today. It's a part of your week that you don't have to give us, but you're choosing to. And for that, we are both incredibly, incredibly grateful. If this conversation resonated with you, I think I speak for both Matt and I and saying that we'd love to keep the connection going. Matt listed where you can find him, where you can hang out with him. You can find me on LinkedIn as well, where I primarily hang out, hang out in other places too, but that is where I primarily hang out, sharing weekly insights on the human side of planning. And if you'd like a little bit more Beyond the Plan in your life, you can head on over to our website and sign up for our monthly newsletter. And hey, while you're there, if you've been thinking, hey, I kind of want to be a better human and I want to be a better advisor. And I'd really like to know more about how I can do that and how I can work with Beyond the Plan, go ahead and click that contact us tab there. Send us a message. We would love to have a conversation with you. But more importantly, I mean, I guess all the things we've said is kind of important, but I think the most important thing here that you can do today is to follow the show, Planning and Beyond. Follow it wherever you listen to your podcast so that you never miss a conversation like this one. All right, my friends, as you go out into your week, remember finances don't have feelings, but your clients do. Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond. Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond. I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more advisors like you who are dedicated to making a difference. For more resources, tips, and to continue the conversation, visit our website at beyondthefp.com. You will find articles, tools, and information about upcoming episodes designed to support your journey and practice. Stay connected with us on social media and never miss an update. Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn. And remember, the best way to grow is to keep learning and sharing. Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going.