SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show where financial planning meets human understanding. As an exceptional financial advisor, you know that financial planning is about more than just numbers. It's about giving clients the clarity they need to align their money with what matters most, which is why each episode is designed with that goal in mind. You'll learn how to uncover the psychology behind client decisions and gain insights and behavioral strategies needed to create deeper, more meaningful client relationships. You'll discover techniques for navigating emotional client situations drawn from conversations with leading industry experts in behavioral finance, psychology, communication, and more. Whether it's mastering discovery meaning handling sensitive client conversations or understanding what is truly keeping your client stuck, you'll walk away with not only strategies that you can use in your next client meeting, but also the confidence to do so. Oh yeah, hi. I should probably introduce myself. I'm your host, Ashley Kwamey, a therapist who somehow wandered into the world of financial behavior and kind of decided to stay. My mission is to help you bridge the gap between financial planning and human understanding. Because remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do. Let's dive in. Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the podcast where financial planning meets human understanding. I'm your host, Ashley Kwame, and today I'm joined by Justin Costelli. I feel like confetti, you're like, woo, crowd goes wild, should like kind of play like behind right now, me introducing you, uh, Justin. Uh, for those of you who don't know Justin, um, he is an advisor and the founder of RLS Wealth slash Santiago, which we're gonna get into that slash here in in a little bit. Justin, welcome to the show. I'm so glad you're here.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Ashley, thank you for for having me. I'm our our pre-recording talk already has me super excited. Like I was excited to join, anyways, but then our little bit of back and forth has been great beforehand. So this is gonna be an awesome, awesome conversation.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Yeah, I part of me almost wishes that we had just started hitting record and you know, kind of found some ways to weave in, uh weave in a few things. But nonetheless, here we are. Uh, it's still gonna be a great conversation. Uh, Justin, I'd love to maybe if we can just start just kind of a little bit more just about you. Um, we're talking about today just being authentic. Um, and for financial advisors, uh, you know, even just for professionals, I think showing up authentically uh can be really scary. I'll I'll frame it that way. However, in my time of coming to know you um via all the socials and following, following you, following your work, what I've really admired and respected is just the way in which you've gone about doing that and still appearing very professional. Uh and so wanting to, you were the obvious choice for if I was gonna talk about authenticity, it was like, well, it's gotta be Justin. Uh so I'd love to know from an authentic place a little bit more, share with our listeners if they're not familiar with you and your work, who is Justin?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Yeah. Well, I appreciate all the kind words. And it it makes me happy to hear that it appears as if I'm being authentic. Because I'd like to think that I am. So the fact that it appears that way is really good. And the only way you really know if I'm being real is like when you meet me in person, or more importantly, when you see me from a distance, am I moving and being the person that you thought I was based off of what you see? And I think that I am. I'm pretty pretty true to that. But in being authentic, one of the things that I try to do a better job about answering the question of who am I is starting with the fact that I'm a father and a husband first. Like we always jump to our professional status is this is who I am. Um, but first and foremost, and everything that I've done with my life, it's built around my family. So a father to three boys, Roman, Leo, and Silas, that's where the RLS of RLS wealth comes.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Seems so obvious.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

And yeah, one of the bad things about the name is this like saying RLS wealth real quick is a hard thing to say. Um so that's where that came from. So, first and foremost, dad to them. Um, my wife, Angela, is um an awesome entrepreneur in her own right. Um, she has a boys' clothing store called Roman and Leo that she actually has been running for 12 years. And this this month, the end of January, she's actually made a tough decision, not tough decision. She's made the decision to close that chapter, which is really, really cool. Um, because a lot of people think, oh, a business closing, it means things aren't going well. And for her, the store was all about the boys. It was about dressing them in cool clothes, and they've all sized out. So being true and authentic to herself, she realized that that chapter's ended. And instead of continuing to do something that she's not as excited about going forward, she decided to say, okay, this chapter's ended. It's been a great chapter, and now it's time to move on to something else. So I would like to think that my talk about living your authentic life and pursuing your authentic self kind of rubbed off on her, and and maybe it has a little bit, but um, that those two components right there are the most important parts of who I am. Um, and then it spills into being an advisor, being a creator. Like I've been in the business for over 20 years now. I've been running my own firm since 2015. Um, and there was a like, there's a pre-RLS Wealth Me and a post, not an inauthentic versus authentic version, but when I started my firm, that's when the creator side of me came out. Um, I was a big fan of and still am of Josh Brown. I read The Reform Broker. I was at a firm where I couldn't do any social media beforehand. And one of the first things I knew I wanted to do when I went out on my own was to start writing a blog. And something about writing the blog unlocked a creator and a creative inside of me that I didn't know existed. And the blog turned into a podcast and podcasts turned into videos, and then other podcasts started and closed. And I just love I love creating, which has been really cool because that is the way for me, you know, from an advisor standpoint, that's the way, one of the main ways I've grown my business. But it's also allowed me to grow as an individual and ultimately arrive at what I think is the true authentic version of myself of what I'm supposed to be doing and what I'm supposed to bring to the world. And now that I know what that is, it's been kind of repositioning everything to go down this path of I look at it as I'm building the business of the authentic life. That is my business. And I have multiple ways that I'm doing that. So if you think about it like kind of like an umbrella, the authentic life is the business. RLS Wealth in Santiago is the place where I actually help guide people to find and live their authentic life. Merging life planning with financial planning, with coaching, that takes people to their authentic life. Content is another way that I do it. So I write a daily note, I write a blog, I have a podcast, I do videos. All of that content is designed to help people realize what might be missing, tap into who they really are, begin to pursue those things to ultimately hopefully find their authentic life. So that's another way. And then I have a future business idea that kind of exists today called Pursuit PRST. Pursuit is my creative collective. In the future, it will be a publishing company, it'll be a podcast network, it'll be a documentary company, it'll be a lifestyle brand, it'll be an event company. And everything that that company pursuit is creating for is related somehow to the authentic life. And truthfully, I hope that that becomes my family business one day. I hope that when the boys are older, they've gone out and experienced the world a little bit and they kind of find out what they're supposed to be doing, they might find their way back to that and they can, you know, start at the bottom and work their way up. And we're all working in this really cool business that is telling these stories, showing these stories, all on the line, all the things that I think are really, really important. So very long info to who I am. Not I'm not a very like simple person.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Oh well, none of us are. You know, Justin, like as humans, like we are designed with complexity. Uh, and so uh what what I love about just this introduction to who you are is that what you're sharing is that there are a lot of layers, there are a lot of parts and pieces, there's complexity there. Uh and so I I love that. And I think what I'm taking away from you right now that I have not thought about is you said that first and foremost you start with, you know, if someone's like, well, who is Justin? Or that intro is that you start with, you know, I am a father and I'm a husband. Uh, like just these two very central roles. And so I know that for me, like leaving this conversation today, like that will probably, I don't know, like we've got so much time left in the conversation. Um, I don't want to be like, that's that's that's what I'm taking away. Like number one, uh uh, you know, cautious to say that. But for me, like it's so nice to hear that because I think and I'd be curious, you work with advisors, like you coach them, like you've you've also got the AGC, like uh you know the community. Like, so you are in touch with a lot of other advisors. And I don't know, like when I heard you say that, I was just like, wow, like I don't know if I've ever thought about introducing myself from a more authentic place of like, well, who am I? Well, like I'm a wife and a mom. And I would tell anyone, like those are the two most important, you know, roles and areas of my life. But I feel like when in professional settings, and I'll just say advisors because that's what that's who we're talking to here, like that's probably not who they start with. That's not that's probably not the intro, like they start with. Um, all right. So I have about a bajillion questions or directions, but maybe let's just kind of before I get too excited, um, kind of let's pull back a little bit. When we talk about, you know, we kind of mentioned here like being authentic. Like, how do you define authenticity? Uh, if someone was like, Justin, like what does that mean? Like to be authentic, how how I'm curious, how do you define that?

SPEAKER_00 10:12

You know, you'd think I would have a better like definition and answer to that question. Um, I so first and foremost, I think being authentic is something that only you can feel. And I think I think I think you know when you're being the truest version of yourself. So I think being authentic is being the true version of yourself. Now, what is the true version of yourself? Like that's a broad definition as well. And I just think it comes back to you're being the person that you were created to be. And one thing I think is really important, and I'll come back to that created part. I think that there aren't different versions of an authentic version of ourself, but we can be our we can be an authentic version of ourselves in different settings. So I don't think you have to compromise your authenticity by like so I like the example I used to give is like wearing suits. Like I don't wear suits anymore. If I was in an environment where wearing a suit was appropriate, I don't think me putting on a suit means I'm being inauthentic. Right. So I think I think that like I'm I'm in a very fortunate position that I run my own business. So I can be as free as I want to be. I can show my tattoos, I can go finish a sleeve at the age of 43, and nobody can tell me not to do it. Not everybody's in that position. So the reason I bring up different that you can be still true to your authentic self in different environments is if I was working at another corporation where I could not dress like this, or I could not freely be the fullest version of myself, freest version of myself, I should say, I can still be true to my authentic self within those constraints. Um, and there's different ways to do it. And it's silly to think about fashion as one way to do it, but that could be one way you express yourself. Everybody wants to express themselves in a different way. And so if you're not an environment where you can freely choose to do any whatever you want, then finding the way to be true to your authentic, true to your authentic self as much as possible within those constraints, I think you're you're doing the best that you can. And then when you get outside those constraints, you step into who you are. So that's a little caveat I want to throw because I don't think I I talk about that enough. I think it, I think sometimes my fear is I make it seem like you have to be totally in control of your life to be your authentic self. And that's not true. You can be authentic, you can be true uh within constraints of corporations or other employers. I think an important part of being authentic is being true to your values. So not compromising your values in different settings or in different places. Um, so as I as I ramble through this, because I've never really thought about like what's the best definition of authenticity, I think it's being true to yourself, upholding the values that you hold are important to you and not compromising those. Um and then some of the other details of like dress and hair and things like that, being able to wear earrings or whatever it might be, like that's not the most important things. It dials down to are you able to be comfortable and feel as if you're being true to yourself? And if not, then that's where kind of problems come in. What I what I believe is not everybody knows their authentic self. And that's why I'm so fascinated with this idea of the authentic life, uh, pursuing the pursuit of your authentic self and going back to created. This may not be a belief that everybody shares. I think this is a belief that can apply to any belief system, but I believe we were all created for a purpose, something or someone greater master plan for why we're all here. And we were all given unique gifts and talents that only we can bring to the world. And I think it's through those unique gifts and talents and finding those and figuring out how to bring them to the world that we really tap into like if we think about it as a big puzzle, like where am I in this puzzle supposed to fit? And if we all found that out, like it's this perfect picture. So I think that finding who your authentic self is can be found through leveraging or leaning into the unique gifts and talents that you may have. It may be artistic, maybe creativity, maybe analytics. Everybody's different, but it's finding those things that will help you figure out, you know, what's your purpose? What are you here? What are you here to do? What are you here to bring to the world? And then as you lean into that more, you begin to find more and more who you are. And then you just have to find the confidence to to be that and not worry about what other people think. It's not easy.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

No, it's not. It's not easy, but you gave some really just, I think, fantastic. Um uh just kind of putting some uh my partner, Meg Lurts, uh, for a lot of you may know her, uh, she uses the word scaffolding. And so I don't feel like I can ever say that without saying what Meg Lurt says. Uh Meg talks about putting like some scaffolding, right? To kind of what this means. And I like that you mentioned that there's alignment like with values, right? Making sure that we're um, you know, our actions are congruent with that. Like that is curative authenticity. I actually love that you mentioned um fashion. And so quick just kind of story here. Um, you know, a lot of you may know uh practicing in therapy, I had my own private practice for like, you know, 10 plus years. And I had this idea around what does a therapist quote look like? And, you know, some of that came from Goodwill Hunting and you know, Robin Williams in his like button up cardigan, which fun fact, I have one that's around the same color that my brother makes fun of me for. He calls it my Robin Williams um cardigan, uh, rest in peace. Uh, but I had this vision of like what a therapist like is supposed to look like when they in terms of fashion. Fast forward kind of came into financial services. I thought like I had to look when I went out to conferences or when I started speaking, like I had to look way more dressed up and like proceed. And I remember like the first time um I actually decided, I was so scared. I decided um to wear my rose gold Nike dunks for presentation because I I hate wearing high heels. Um and I'm not graceful. So like they might be cute, but I they're not for me. And like I am a tennis shoes lover. Um, they are art to me. So anyway, I remember I was like, I'm gonna take this risk and I'm gonna be vulnerable and I'm gonna wear like my Rolls Gold Nike Dunks. And you know what? If someone says something or like makes a comment, or if I feel judged, like you know, maybe maybe I won't, but I'm just gonna do this because I'm gonna be way more comfortable. I cannot tell you how much more confident I felt giving that presentation. And I don't know if I connected the dots and realized it like at the time, but I will tell you since then, like I wear tennis shoes to present.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Um, you had compliments on it too, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Actually, I did. Um I'm telling you, so I got a lot of compliments on it, and that blew my mind, Justin.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

And I think there's I think there's multiple reasons to that. One, you by you wearing those shoes, you gave other people who don't want to wear heels permission to wear their Nike Dunks or whatever it might be. So that's one thing. Secondly, if we want to get like woo and kind of like quantum, that's the energy that you were that you were operating from was at a much higher frequency just because of your confidence. Yeah. And so you gave a better performance because you were more confident and energetically it was received that way. And then the story I wanted to share to that that was that was kind of similar was well, one, when I started my firm, I decided like I was done wearing suits and I wanted to like piss the old guys off at the conferences. So I would wear graphic tees, I would wear Jordans, I would wear Jordans on stage. It got to a point where by no means was it a lot of people, but like there would be people wondering what Jordans I was gonna wear on stage. So, as embarrassing as this is, I bought Jordans specifically brand new to wear on stage because I couldn't show up in the same Jordans as before.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Listen, as a fellow shoe, like I kind of that kind of resonates with me. I'm killing you.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

I understand the realization I had was years before that. So when I worked at the 403B company, so I worked with teachers, that was where I really became an advisor, got my CFP, and realized that this was the profession I was supposed to be in. I used to wear suits all the time. Go into the teacher's lounge, do reviews, and that was where I did my prospecting, go to clients' houses. And as I was getting towards the tail end of being there, planning my escape, launching my own business type of thing. I got a little bit more relaxed. I said, you know what? I don't want to wear a suit anymore. I'm gonna wear jeans and I'll wear a V-neck sweater over a button up that feels more comfortable. And I kid you not, I would show it to my clients' houses that I'd been going to for three, four, five years, and I would get so many compliments on how nice I looked when I wasn't wearing the suit. Oh like the realization was this was before I knew anything about like energy and attraction, that type of stuff. Just that they're like for my clients, they're more comfortable when I'm not in a suit. They enjoyed, they enjoyed me being more relaxed, and that made them more comfortable. So, like that was now when I look at it, like the people that I was attracting, there was enough energetic connection between the two of us just from personality side. But then when I dropped the suit, it made me more, for lack of a better term, attractive. Not like they thought I was attractive, but attractive from the standpoint, they felt even more comfortable with me. So we already had this trust, and then when I dropped the suit, it just took it to a whole nother level. Yeah. And so what I think is really important about this is for some people, the suit is the right answer. Wear your suit. Yes. I'm not telling everyone.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Wear the high heels, wear the suit. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

So many people want to say you have to do this. Like what's right for me is not right for you and everybody else. It might be for some, but you know what you feel most comfortable in. So whatever you, whatever you, whatever outfit you put on, whatever style you wear that makes you feel like a million bucks, that's what you should be trying to wear as much as possible. And yes, I know in finance we're supposed to put this presence of trust and intellect, and that's always been attributed to the suit. But at the end of the day, there are gonna be people that that don't want that. And depending on your goals as an advisor and a business owner, how big you want to get, you only need a hand, you only need so many clients to have a good business. And so I think that you'll start to attract the people who like that you dress down, or you'll attract the people who like that you dress in a suit these days, because now there's these hippie advisors that don't dress up anymore and they can't trust them. Like you'll find your people just by being yourself. That's the beauty of authenticity, is it allows you to find the right people, and the right people will come to find you just because you're being yourself. There is a law of attraction that does work when you put yourself out there. And there's tons of other reasons I think you should be true to yourself and authentic that we'll get to, but just, you know, advisors want to grow their business. And I think being more of your true self is going to allow you to operate at a frequency that is going to attract the people who are going to be right for you. And it's going to deflect the ones who aren't going to be right.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Before we continue, I'm going to pause for just a second to tell you about something I'm so excited about. And yes, I know that this is a classic podcast move, right? But just stay with me here because if what we've been talking about today resonates with you, this is going to feel really relevant. If you're a firm owner, if you're an advisor who knows that there's more to financial planning than the numbers, but maybe you're not quite sure how to systematically bring the human side into your practice, I want to tell you about our foundations offering. This is a three tiered offering. That Meglerts and I created to help advisory firms integrate financial psychology into every area of support, client support, advisor support, even including firm support. We have done for you quarterly trainings, bi-monthly case consultations, on-call one-on-one client coaching sessions, white label newsletters, client-facing tools, even strategic support that builds your team's confidence over time. If you're ready to transform how you show up for your clients, visit beyondthefp.com to reach out to us and start the conversation. All right, let's get back to the show. All right, let's get into some of those other reasons then. Um, what are some of those other reasons? Like why? Like why an advisor, why it's in their best interest, why it's beneficial to them uh to be more authentic.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

I think first and foremost, it's more enjoyable. When you get to be yourself, you enjoy the day more. Um, I don't know if there's any truth behind this. I'm not, I'm not an academic. Um, I'm somebody who I operate off of feeling and experience. If I feel this and I experience it, then there's some truth to it. I don't need science to back it up. If I can find it, great. But I think that when you are more comfortable in how you're showing up, you're being more of your true self, it just makes the just that makes the day more enjoyable. And if the day is more enjoyable, then your interactions with people are more enjoyable. Your outlook on life is more enjoyable, and it just continues to bring positivity into your life. So you just feel better being yourself. I think that one of the reasons people burn out, especially in our profession, is they have all of the stresses from life, being a husband, being a father, you know, running boys around to practices, all the things in life. Then you have the stress of being a business owner and the stress of working in finance and helping people manage their life's worth. And then if you're not being yourself, you're putting on an act. That's just more energy you have to put out. It takes energy to be somebody that's not true and authentic to yourself. And I just think that becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back of I'm tired of playing this act. I don't want to be this person that I'm not. I want to be, I want to be the real me. And then sometimes that brings us to a spot where okay, the real me doesn't even want the business I'm in. The real me would not choose to build this business anymore. And now I'm at this crossroads. So the first one is I just think it makes life better. When you get to be yourself, it's it's better. And when you're when you are more confident, more comfortable, I think your outcomes for your clients become better because you're enjoying work more. Like we talk about work-life balance, and I think it's really important. But I also think that when you are, when you're doing what you're supposed to do, I think a lot of us in finance are where we're supposed to be, and you're doing it in the way that's true to yourself and the way you want to. Hard work doesn't seem as hard as it does when you're doing something you don't want to do.

unknown 25:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

So I couldn't tell you how many hours a week I work. I don't track it. I know I work more than 40, but it doesn't feel like it because the work that I'm doing, I enjoy and I love because I'm doing it the way that I want to, which is why there's the rebrand from RLS Wealth to Santiago that we'll get to. Like that Santiago name represents a shift in the way that I want to show up in the future as a financial advisor. Actually, starting today going forward as a financial advisor. Um, so I just think that the outcomes are better for our clients when we are, again, going back to frequencies, operating at a higher level of frequency, which brings me to kind of getting into the woo. There's a book called The Map of Consciousness Explained by Dr. David Hawkins. He also wrote a book called Power and Force. And there's one other one that's really popular. But in the Map of Consciousness Explained, he explains consciousness and like the different levels and what they represent and how you get there. But what's important for me is in that book, he talks about an experiment that was done with doctors. There were two doctors, both of their patients had the same ailment, forget what it was. They prescribed the same prescriptions to fix the ailment. The only difference in the two doctors was the level of consciousness that the doctor was operating from. One from a higher level of consciousness, one from a lower level of consciousness. At the end of the period, the doctor with a lower consciousness, his patients didn't get any better. The doctor with the higher consciousness, his patients were all healed. So again, I don't need to go do the study myself. If that is done, it's in a book, it's been peer-reviewed, and there's truth to it, then that tells me that the level of consciousness that we're operating from has an impact not on ourselves, but on other people. And if that is true for doctors, then I'm comfortable saying it's probably true for financial advisors. So by operating from a higher level of consciousness, which I think we can get there by being our authentic self, as I kind of alluded to, then we end up having better, better outcomes for our clients in ways that we can't necessarily explain. It goes beyond portfolio construction and risk management and all those things. It's just because we're in this higher level that rubs off on our clients, I think. So we can go into like the woo and the quantum of why I think being authentic helps out because again, it gets us to a level, a higher level of consciousness. And there's one study out there that says consciousness has an impact on patients or in our world, clients. And then the final thing is I think that it brings more of that balance and harmony that I alluded to in our into our life. Like when you enjoy the work that you're doing because you get to be yourself, then going to work isn't as bad. And if you have to work a little bit more to catch up, you know, you find that that back and forth between work and family, and it's not as bad. So I just think that at the end of the day, being true to yourself just makes everything better. And the cool thing is, I think it helps your clients.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

It's like this compounding effect, right? Like just really like in small just kind of ways, like drips in a bucket almost. You're just kind of filling that bucket and you know, just dripping into it in slow, small ways. And I think that you and I have talked about a few just kind of small examples of maybe what authenticity looks like. But I want to kind of maybe veer into a little bit more of that. So for advisors who are listening and they're like, okay, like maybe, all right, maybe Justin is he's on to something here, but I'm struggling to really grasp what does being authentic look like? I'm not gonna go and get like a full sleeve, uh, you know, I'm more of like a Cole Han kind of guy, uh, you know, but I don't know what it looks like. What would you offer uh that advisor who might be trying to kind of figure out what are some small ways that I can be authentic?

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Yeah. I'm gonna answer that in a second, but I do want to address something that I've had brought to my attention multiple times before. I I realize that in the landscape of financial advisors, I am in a position where it I have been told, and I believe it's probably true, I have it easier than others to show up as my authentic self. Meaning advisors of color, women, they don't necessarily get as free of a pass as I may have had in the past. So I just want to acknowledge that there might be somebody out there listening and saying, well, it's easy for you because you're a white guy in finance.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

And I don't disagree with that. But I also think that while there might be some truth to that, that could also be a limiting mindset that you don't know until you step out and try it yourself. Sure.

unknown 29:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

So I just would encourage you to embrace more of who you want to be and show up and see what people think. A good example, but still not perfect. And I hate always leaning on my tattoos, but you know, for the majority of my previous employer, I had the tattoo. My employer didn't know, my clients didn't know. It wasn't until I started my firm that I have all of these really conservative, retired teachers from small town Indiana that had I had tattoos visible when they met me, they probably would have written me off. But then when it came time to kind of give them a heads up, none of them cared. And it's never been an issue, and I've gotten more sense. So, like the point of that is I could have assumed that my conservative clients would have judged me negatively because I had tattoos. And it's a reason to think that. But the reality was none of them cared. So you it may not come to fruition that you can't be your true self because you don't look like me. So I just encourage you to try a little. So, how can you try? It doesn't always have to be like how you show up, it could also be who you serve. You know, in our profession, you know, having a niche is something that is encouraged, and there's a lot of good reasons to have one. But I don't think you should force yourself into a niche if it doesn't feel authentic. Because at the end of the day, you're gonna end up building a business that's might probably successful with a bunch of people who don't excite you. So, like I give the example in past podcasts. When I was starting my business, it would have made tons of sense. It made a lot of sense to start working with teachers. I explored that, but realized that teachers weren't going to pay monthly subscriptions to work with me because they got their advice for free through the school. So that wasn't a good way to grow my business. It would have made a lot of sense to learn Eli Lilly's uh equity comp plan because Eli Lilly's global headquarters is 30 minutes from my office, but that didn't excite me. So I like I could, me personally, I could not go into that situation and work with a group of people that didn't excite me. Like I have to have passion about what it is I'm doing. So maybe it's don't force yourself into a niche that doesn't excite you. Allow yourself to grow your business and have your niche be people I like. And then see if as you grow your business, people I like has a theme and now you found your niche. So that would be one way that's not super big, but just don't always follow the advice, even though it's good advice, if that advice doesn't align with what feels true to you. So that would be one way. So I think looking at who you serve, looking at how you serve. You know, advisors love to have pissing contests about fee structure and all this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Like turn all that noise out. What feels right to you for a way for you to be compensated to serve your clients? If it's fee only, great. If it's subscription, if it's hybrid, if it feels right to you, then lean into that and then let your clients tell you whether or not they feel it's fair or not, and you make adjustments based off of that. So I just think a lot of it is it's just it's tuning in to what your heart is telling you. And then have the confidence to trust that and bring that to the reality and do it in ways that you can. So it could be dress, it could be hairstyle, could be business model, fee structure, niche, any of those things. Those are all representations of who you really are. And I think what's really important and the best way to figure this stuff out is to connect with your truth, connect with yourself. Like that's why I talk about the alignment of spirit, mind, body. And then I throw money in there because we're advisors. But it starts with for me, spirit, mind, and body. Spirit being that is my connection to my creator. So the only way I'm ever going to figure out what's true and authentic to me is by listening to what comes from my creator, which I believe comes through my heart. It's through my passions, it's through my intuition. Like those are my guides, those are what I listen to. And then the mind is what brings that into reality. Like you, nothing can exist if you don't believe it can be. So like I never could have had my own business if I didn't believe it was possible.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Once I once I believed it, it became reality. So I think we we downplay, we know mindset is important, but I think we downplay how much importance belief is in becoming the version of ourself that we want to be. And then the body part is like less important for today's conversation, but it's just, you know, taking care of your body to make sure you can execute on this version of yourself you're supposed to be. And if you maintain that alignment, then it's it's flowing. You're getting, you're receiving from your creator, you're receiving from the divine who you're supposed to be. You're going to evolve in the next version of yourself you're supposed to be. The mind is going to understand it, it's going to believe it and bring it to reality. And then you've, if you take care of this vessel, then you're going to be able to execute that. Um, you know, not everything health-related we can really control, but I think we can control a lot more if we take care of our physical body. So I think that's really, really important. How you do that to me does not matter. Like I don't live in a world of absolutes where there's only one way to practice spirituality and mindfulness and take care of your body. Like the closest I'll get to an absolute is I do think spirit, mind, body is a really important alignment. Yeah. And I would, I would be lying if I didn't think that it was true for everybody. But I will leave it open up enough that I could be wrong. But how you want to practice spirituality, what you want to believe in, who you want to believe in, I don't think it matters.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

How you practice mindfulness, do you meditate, do you journal? Doesn't matter. How you take care of your body, do you run? Do you lift? That doesn't matter, I don't think. Those details are distractions. Just figure out what feels right to you that you're actually going to do. And I promise you, you start to do that, you'll start to see synchronicities in your life that will make you want to go believe all the woo stuff you've always laughed at. And I'd say that from somebody who's experienced it.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, as someone who worked in and kind of still does the woo industry, uh, you know, it's always nice to have a, you know, fellow companion uh here talking about that. I I will say that, you know, everything that I'm hearing from you, it really sounds like showing up authentically uh really is a series of experiments. And sometimes we have to just be willing. Sometimes we have to just be vulnerable, like just enough willing to do an experiment and say, I don't know how this is gonna turn out. It feels very aligned. Wearing those rose gold Nike dunks to a speaking event. I don't know. I may not ever get another future like speaking event. People might, you know, laugh, poke fun, I don't know, say mean things, but I'm willing to experiment here and just try this uh at least just once. I think sometimes, and you probably see this with clients, I know that I do too, is that sometimes we think that if we start down a path, we have to continue down that path. Like if I make this decision, if I decide to wear, and I'm I'm just I know I'm kind of beating a dead horse here with my sneakers um example. But if I decide to wear sneakers when I speak, then I that's it. I can never change my mind. I always have to wear sneakers. And it's like that's not really that's not true. If I decide to work with this group of clients as my niche, right, then that's the only kind of clients I can work with forever. Right. Um, you know, shout out to you know the Sandlot uh movie there. So I you know, I think that being willing, um my fellow millennials will get that reference there. Um I feel like that being willing to be vulnerable just enough to try a few different experiments. And you gave some fantastic examples, uh, is a really great starting point. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Oh, I'm I'm a king of pivots. Like you can look back, and like all of my pivots have been documented. Like you can go back because I've created content since I started my firm. So you go back and you look at like there was a period of time where I was gonna I was pursuing working with entrepreneurs. And so I had a different business model. It was gonna blend like personal planning first, then into business planning, and then the top tier was gonna be like content strategy and marketing and like all in there. And so, what do I do when I'm when I'm growing? I do content. So I created the entrepreneurs blueprint, a blog and a podcast geared towards entrepreneurs. And there's probably like seven or eight podcast episodes out there, and then that's when the AGC came to be, and I realized, oh, I am supposed to work with entrepreneurs, but it's entrepreneurial advisors who want to work together to grow and get better. So I shut those things down. Like I think that the I talk about experimentation and um experiencing different versions of yourself. I think the key is is knowing yourself and again, being able to listen to those those cues, and that it's time to turn back around. And I think that those experiments, there's multiple purposes to them, but the whole, the main purpose of it is to learn. For me, sometimes those experiments were to learn that's not a version that's supposed to exist. I would love to be a hip hop producer. I love rap. I love, I love beats, I have a style of beats that I love. And if I could do anything in the world, I would make music. I've never played an instrument. I hired a coach two years ago now, a year ago, to help me learn how to just use the software. And I have a I have a uh oh, what's the I can't think of the website right now where the people upload their mixtapes and stuff, but any SoundCloud. I have a SoundCloud account with like 21 beats that I've made. The beat to my intro of my podcast, I made that beat. They're not great, but what I learned was eh, I'm not that good at it. I don't need to put any more energy in it. But I spent about six months learning how to do it for fun. And now I know, so now I have no regrets. Yeah, I don't have to die on my, I don't have to be on my deathbed being like, what if I would have learned? Could I have been the next Dr. Dre? Could I have been the next alchemist? No, I cannot, because I tried. I know. And so, like, what was the what was the risk? There was embarrassment that I put out crappy music. I don't care. I'm not a producer, so it shouldn't be that good. I spent a little bit of money with my coach and some software. I had fun doing it, and I have some beats that I made that I don't think are bad. Um, and the other thing that's cool is when you when you take these risks and you do these things that really aren't risky, the impact it has on others. Like other people have told me, I tried this thing because I saw you trying to make beats and I always wanted to do this. Like, that's pretty cool to inspire somebody to try something that they that they always wanted to do. Photography is another thing. I played around with my camera for a while. Like I'm not gonna be a photographer right now. So I think that it's nice to know that this thing that I'm kind of interested in, that maybe I have a passion for, once I experience it, that's not it. But writing, yes. Podcast, yes. But I would have never known if I didn't experiment with it. And so you really don't have that much to lose. And the reality of it is after I shut down those blogs and podcasts from the past, no one remembered them after a short amount of time. So, like, there's nobody making fun of me. And if someone's gonna make fun of me for doing it, like it that's not gonna bother me. So I think the things we're afraid to try that bring us more in line with our authentic self, there's really low risk to it. Maybe a little bit of money, maybe a little bit of time, and maybe having to double back and someone saying, Oh, you were stupid for doing that. But the reality of it is the person who's saying you're dumb for doing that really internally is just jealous they didn't do the thing they want to do. Like you're a mirror to them. So they're they're making fun of you because they didn't have the confidence to go do it.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Hey friends, we'll be right back with the episode. But before we do, I wanted to take a quick second to let you know about what we do at Beyond the Plan and how we support financial advisors who are committed to growth. At Beyond the Plan, we specialize in integrating financial and client psychology to enhance your advisory practice. From client meeting facilitation, advisor training and coaching, even client onboarding strategies, we are your implementation partner and dedicated in-house expert. Visit our website at beyondthefp.com to learn more about our services and how we can collaborate to elevate your practice. Together, let's go beyond the plan to deliver meaningful client experiences that foster long-lasting relationships. Now, back to the episode. I've often said that that usually you are highlighting something about them that they are uncomfortable with. And, you know, instead of them sitting in their own discomfort, uh, they are turning it on, you know, to you, judging right uh you being, you know, a troll. I'll just say that. I don't know if I've ever said that's not nice, but a troll. Um there we there we go. Um okay, so we you kind of teased a little bit here, this last part around things that like get in the way of being authentic, but maybe we can talk just here these last few minutes a little bit more explicitly. What are things that you see that get in the way of advisors being more showing up more authentically?

SPEAKER_00 43:17

And for those not watching the podcast, heads. Yeah, it's we get in our own head, we get in our own way, we make assumptions of what people are gonna think, what people want, and we just let other people's thoughts and what we think other people are gonna think determine what we do. I think the other thing is not not not even realizing we're not being authentic. And that's a tricky thing.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Ooh, say more about that. Say more about that.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Because that's yeah, there's a there's a picture I have of myself floating around in my last firm. I'm in a suit, and uh why I took a selfie, I don't know. I actually know this. My I think I don't know if it's a future self told my past self to take it, or my past self knew I was gonna need this picture, but there's some type of like interstellar type thing going on here. I took this selfie. I never would take selfies. I'm making this face. And it was the day we took photos for the company website. I'm wearing a suit which wasn't abnormal, but I wore a different tie-in. They made me take the tie off and wear a boring maroon one. And then there was like a stylist there that trimmed my hair up a little bit and combed it away. I would never wear it. And so the reason I say it's tricky is in that moment, I would have never told you I was unhappy. I was happy. I had a great family. Boys are healthy, wonderful wife. I'm in the profession that I like. I'm at a place where I think there's tons of opportunity for the future. Like I thought I was being happy. And the thing is, I didn't know myself well enough then to pick up on the signs. And so there was, there was frustration. There was discontentment in my life. I wasn't depressed. I wasn't anything like that. It wasn't a glaring negative, but there were these internal feelings that now when I look back, I'm like, oh, that's that's why there was that frustration. That's why I was thinking about these other things, is my internal guide was telling me this this isn't it. And I can even look back to when I took that opportunity, I forced myself into it. I convinced myself with my mind that it was the right opportunity because prior to meeting that firm's owner, I was ready to go out on my own and start my own firm. But I got I got the I got the succession plan dangled in front of me of a million-dollar revenue firm, and you'll run it in two or three years with another advisor and all these things. And I deviated. And I'm I'm proud to say that I learned from that experience because a couple years ago, I was considering merging my firm into another firm that on paper was the perfect place. Perfect place on all fronts. Love the leadership team. I still love them. The name of the firm was really perfect for me. They have four pillars. It was Spirit, Mind, Body, Money. Like everything was on perfect. Finances would have been better if I was there. But that was my head. My heart was telling me independence is important for me. My freedom is important to me. Um, all fronts, creative time, being able to pivot, all those types of things. And I ended up not taking the position. I've told the story before. I had three bald eagle sightings that confirmed it. And then I realized after the third one that like I had to listen to my heart. Otherwise, all of the writing, all of the podcasting, everything I talked about for the last two years, I was lying and I was a hypocrite. I can't sit on my podcast. I can't write my daily notes saying, listen to your intuition, follow your heart. And then when I get a good opportunity on it, say, nope, I'm gonna go with my mind. And the really cool thing is on the other side of that decision, everything for Santiago opened up. The name, the rebrand came. Like Santiago, I'll touch on that real quick because that's part of my authenticity. Santiago was a name that I had been sitting on to do something with for like a year. Santiago, if you don't know, is the main character in the book The Alchemist, which is a very important book to me. Long story short, Santiago, the main character, goes on this journey through the desert to find his personal legend, which is your purpose, your authentic life. I love the book. I have a tattoo on my arm of Santiago at the pyramids with the phrase. So like I love the brand name. And what I realized was that to be true to myself and to keep me excited about the work I'm doing going forward. I really wanted to lean into life planning. I'd gone through Kinders of Voke and loved it. I believe it's manifestation masked up as a process in financial planning. I wanted to work with people more in a collaborative way financially, not being the answer guy, but being a sounding board and interacting differently, using my expertise and my knowledge to help people make their own decisions and not make bad decisions. And then also act as a little bit of a life coach as well, which is not a relationship I'd seen around. And so that I knew was what I'm supposed to do in addition to creating this content. When I sat back and looked at my company, I have what I would say is a traditional financial planning firm. Retirees, um, young professionals, saving for great lives. And I've always intertwined some of this stuff, but it's never been the reason they came to me. So I realized that I couldn't force that type of work on them because that's not fair to them. That's not what they signed up for. But at the same point, I knew I didn't want to sell my business because I love my clients. Like they're it's not even a business relationship with more on any of them. It's all personal, it's all friendship, it's all family. Like I helped one of my clients fix his stock app on his iPhone today, and my third son happens to have his name as his middle name because of him. Like that's how close I am with my clients. So I knew that that wasn't it. And when I looked at my firm, I thought, well, RLS Wealth, I'm proud of that brand. I know that in the grand scheme of the world, it's a worthless brand. If I tried to sell RLS Wealth, it's not commanding any money. But to me, it's really important. And the thing was, when I looked at it, it didn't represent to the world the work I wanted to do. And then that's when the idea of like, oh, Santiago does. So what I've kind of maybe messed up a little bit on was I rebranded the firm. So it's RLS Wealth doing business as Santiago. So the website now is Santiago.life. The existing clients still see it as RLS Wealth, which is perfectly fine for me. But for me, once I switched the name to Santiago, because of the story behind the name and the work I want to do, now I was comfortable really leaning into intuition, manifestation, like the language on my website I could not have put on RLS Wealth because I like I couldn't have done it because it wouldn't have felt right. Sure. But I, so I needed to make that change. So the point of that story is how can you be, how can you show up more authentic as a financial advisor? It could be so far as rebranding your firm to align with the work that you want to do because it gives me more confidence. It allows me to own this new way that I want to show up. I want to have a storytelling of I'm somebody who believes in intuition should be a part of our decision making. So, Ashley, you want to buy this house, tell me how you want to pay for it. Great. Here's a couple other options, pros and cons of each. I'm gonna put it back on you. What feels right to you? And if I have clients who understand intuition and value it and are already operating on it, then I know we can lean on that to make the right decision and we can move forward. So that's why I wanted to rebrand the firm. And I think that allows me to show up in the space as an authentic version of myself. Like this is the work I'm doing. I'm doing it differently than most advisors. I'm leaning into life planning. I'm getting ready to do um integrated wealth advisor this this year. So that's gonna bring a whole other dynamic to it. And ultimately, my process is gonna be a blend of probably Kinders of Oak and what I learned with Breed Integrated Wealth. And that will become my authentic way of helping clients that allows me to tap into my unique gifts. I mentioned unique gifts and talents. Like I, as crazy as it sounds, I believe I have a unique gift of intuition that I am able, once I connect with a client, not every client and not every person, but when I connect with somebody, I am able to get a vision of where that person's supposed to go. And it is my job to find the balance between guiding and giving snippets to help you see it a little bit and catch that vision yourself, but I can't give it to you.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

And so the work I want to do taps into this unique gift that I don't think very many people have that allows me to do the best work for the right people. And again, it goes back to letting me do what I love and enjoy. And because I believe that's what I'm supposed to do, I absolutely love it. Like all I want to do because that's my that's my gift to the world that only I can bring. And we all have something, we just have to figure out what it is. And to end that rant, one of the scary things of this process, like if you find out that if you find yourself thinking, I don't even know why I'm a financial advisor. Like, how did I get here? And you start peeling back the layer of the onions, and you realize, like, I don't this this isn't right for me. Like, discovering your authenticity, discovering your true self can be scary because the answer on the other side of it could totally blow up your world.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

And then you have this decision of like, okay, do I lean into this true authentic version of myself and change a lot of things? Or do I stay as this version of myself that's not bad, but it's not fully myself, which means I don't think you ever reach your full happiness, your fullest level of joy. And that's okay. Like, I I'm okay if somebody chooses not to do that. I just don't want people not to know.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Like I I would never want to choose that, but I just want people to know that like there is a life that you were created to live. And many of us, because of the way we're, you know, brought into school and parents guide us and we listen and we don't question, we just get sent down this path. And it's a path that we're sent down from people who love us and they want to see us do well and they want good for us, but they don't know what we're supposed to do. Only we can know that. And I think no a lot of people just get comfortable and never question. And that's why you get to Brawny Ware and her five regrets of the dying. And it's, I wish I was more true to myself. And it's it's like all these things that if you just took some time to get to know yourself better, as you know, I don't know, as as woo as that sounds, or as sensitive as that sounds, like just get to know yourself and understand what you really want to be doing. Like those are your cues, those are your guides, those are your things to experiment with and then see where it's supposed to go. And I do believe the doors open up and you begin to find yourself. Like I said, synchronicities happen and they just the guy it's almost like being new in the matrix. Like you just start, you see the code, you know exactly where you're supposed to go.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Yeah, yeah. I I think that you offered so many great just little nuggets here as far as the benefits for why, how to even wrestle with the fear of uncertainty. Um how to navigate, even if, like, okay, maybe there is some misalignment in your life, but now is not the time where you're able to take action to do something different. And certainly that makes a lot of sense, especially if you're the breadwinner in a family. And it's like, well, working at this firm or doing this, like, you know what, it's really not aligned with who I want to be. However, I've got a family to feed. Uh, and you know, all right, maybe I'll just kind of see this through, but maybe in other areas of my life I'll start to show up, you know, a little bit more authentically, which is okay too.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Do we have another, do we have like a couple more minutes for me to share? I know we're getting close to the end, but I want to share something that taps into that. That's truth true for me. So I'm just I want to share like I don't know, this isn't vulnerable because it's not something crazy, but I think it's really, really important to realize that sometimes we get thinking about like the future, and we think that that future version of ourselves, whom we want to be, is who we're supposed to be today. And so it's it's it's about coming back into the present moment and realizing, okay, the version of me today needs to be at this firm because I have a family to take care of. I'm not being inauthentic because I want to be, I want to be that version, but I have to be this version. So that being said, the version of myself I'm really excited to be one day is creating content 80% of my professional time. Yeah, 20% of my time doing the work. And for so long, I was not so long, for a few years, I was in such a like frustration of how do I get there sooner? How do I get to be like Rich Roll today? How do I get to have a modern wisdom podcast like Chris Williamson today? And then I realized I was working with my coach, and I realized that if that presented itself today, I still couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:59

Because to be that, I have to miss basketball games. Yeah. I have to miss practices, and I'm not going to miss that. So then I got the freedom to realize, okay, I am going to be that guy, but that's 10 years down the road. I have a 10-year runway. And in that 10 years, I get to grow more as a person. I get to learn. I get to have 10 years of working with clients, helping them do the things I'm talking about. I get 10 more years of writing, 10 more years of podcasting. And then, however big I'm supposed to blow up, I don't care. Then that then I have that moment because now I can go travel to do podcasts. I can go travel to speak. Ange and I can go all around the country because I don't have three boys that I don't want to miss a moment with them. And so I share all of that. I really want to be doing that. And if I could do it today, I would do it. But I know that if that came knocking on my door and I listened to my heart, I would turn it away. Yeah. So I think the authentic life, what I talk about all the time, it's an evolution. And we're always going to be growing, we're always going to be evolving. And who knows, maybe in 10 years, when I that version of myself I thought I was supposed to be, it's going to look different. And it probably will because there will be experiences between now and then that will change my perspective. But just because you're at that firm that you don't want to be at long term, I don't think that compromises your authenticity when it meets what you need today. Sometimes these things are means to an end. And that is the authentic version of yourself today. You're supposed to be an employee today because you have to be. But you can be doing things today that move you closer to that future version of yourself that you're being called to. And again, no one can tell you any of this, that you can only be guided to figure it out yourself. And the better you know how to understand your body, listen to your body and your feelings, then that's the only way you can know what it is you're supposed to be doing. Like your body will tell you and it will tell you differently. For me, it's in my heart, it's passion, it's excitement. Like you get me going like I am now. Like I know that feeling and I know how to read it. I also know how to read my fear. I know when it's real fear and when it's just, you know, it's it's resistance. Um, and it's not really fear. So I do I just wanted to share that because I the idea is so broad and abstract, but for me, it's so clear. And I get afraid that sometimes I make the authentic life feel like this perfect world. It's not perfect. Your authentic life has ups and downs. It has bad times, it has good times. Like it's it's life. But when you're being true to yourself, I think it's easier to get through those ups and downs.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

Yeah, I would agree. Yeah, and I'm glad that you we kind of ended in that way because I do think that there could be some myth there around, you know, if we choose to live authentically, then everything will be easy. Everything will come easy to and be easy for us. And, you know, living authentically does not mean that there won't be hardships or adversity. It doesn't mean that there won't be hard decisions along the way. Uh, it just means that, you know, the net positive, right? Is just it's bigger, it's greater. So, Justin, I'm so grateful for you taking the time to share all of your wisdom, all of your knowledge uh today. If people want more, Justin, if they're like, goodness, I'd like to hear or read um all things, Justin. Where can they find you? Where can they hang out with you?

SPEAKER_00 59:21

I would love that. I hope that's the case. Um, and I made it easy. If you just go to Justincastelli.io, everything is there. My daily note is there, the blog I write is there, the podcast is there. Um, any videos go up in there. So Justincastelli.io is the easiest way to get everything.

SPEAKER_01 59:37

Awesome. We'll make sure that we link that in the show notes. I'm gonna also throw in there that Justin hangs out on LinkedIn as well. So I do find him, hang out with there, hang out with him on there. He puts out lots of great content. Thank you to all of you for tuning in today and allowing Justin and I into your mind, into your ears, and a part of your week. We're so grateful for you taking the time. If this conversation resonated with you, I'd love to keep the connection going. And so would Justin too. I think I can speak for him and saying that he would like that. He would welcome that as well. You can find me on LinkedIn at Ashley Kwame, where I share weekly insights on the human side of planning. And if you want more, Ashley, maybe you want more, Justin, maybe you also want more, Ashley. Uh, you can head over to our website www.beyondthefp.com, where we put out a monthly newsletter and share all kinds of goodies there for you. But make sure, most importantly, make sure to follow the show so that you never miss future conversations like this one. And as always, my friends, remember finances don't have feelings, but your clients do. Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond. Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond. I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more advisors like you who are dedicated to making a difference. For more resources, tips, and to continue the conversation, visit our website at beyond thefp.com. You'll find articles, tools, and information about upcoming episodes designed to support your journey and practice. Stay connected with us on social media and never miss an update. Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn. And remember, the best way to grow is to keep learning and sharing. Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.