SPEAKER_01 0:00

Generally, it's more exciting to talk about the newest AI tool I got, or the coolest like tax planning software I got, or my neat new financial plan. I mean, even Astymap falls into some of these categories, but 95% of the answers from across the board, multiple disciplines, different backgrounds, et cetera, are all saying it's all about the human role. What? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show where financial planning meets human understanding. As an exceptional financial advisor, you know that financial planning is about more than just numbers. It's about giving clients the clarity they need to align their money with what matters most, which is why each episode is designed with that goal in mind. You'll learn how to uncover the psychology behind client decisions and gain insights and behavioral strategies needed to create deeper, more meaningful client relationships. You'll discover techniques for navigating emotional client situations, drawn from conversations with leading industry experts in behavioral finance, psychology, communication, and more. Whether it's mastering discovery meetings, handling sensitive client conversations, or understanding what is truly keeping your client stuck, you'll walk away with not only strategies that you can use in your next client meeting, but also the confidence to do so. Oh yeah, hi. I should probably introduce myself. I'm your host, Ashley Kwame, a therapist who somehow wandered into the world of financial behavior and kind of decided to stay. My mission is to help you bridge the gap between financial planning and human understanding. Because remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do. Let's dive in. I don't, Adam, do you need an introduction? I feel like I don't know. I mean I don't know who's listening. Everyone knows. There could be somebody who doesn't know me. Probably. I want to do like a Jason Kelsey like intro. Um do you watch their podcast, New Heights? I don't. I mean, I don't watch or listen to it, but you know, I should that's really disappointing given that Jason is obviously up in the Philly area, but he does. You should go and listen to his podcast because he does these fantastic introductions of his guests. And I there's a part of me that has wanted to do that. And I wanted to do that with you, but I'm not because I haven't practiced it. But you also you also like just won this award for like CEO of the year in the fintech space. You're super cool. You do all awesome things, not only with asset map, but also with Rebel Dads. You're just awesome. And so I'm glad to have you here, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Yeah, I don't know if uh you heard, but I'm starting to uh date Taylor Swift's sister. Um I reached out and asked if she was available. Not at all. Actually, I don't think my family's gonna appreciate that that joke. Thank you. That is really a kind introduction. I I don't I don't mind that one. That was really good. I was really surprised to get that uh CEO of the award. That was pretty, that was a fun, that was a fun thing, I think. Surprise. There was a pretty good slate of people. I was like, wow, these guys have Super Bowl commercials. I'm like, how am I yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Well, I think it's well deserved. I am also biased, you know, because I am a fan of pro Adam Holt. So there is my bias there. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

You also don't know the other people that were actually nominated.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

I don't actually. I'm sure they're wonderful. I'm sure they're great. I might know a few. I don't know, but yeah. Needless to say, I'm glad that you were here chatting today with us. You, this past summer, you and Asset Map put on this fantastic event that I had the honor and privilege of being a part of. You were very gracious in inviting me. But I thought for today we could talk a little bit about this because there was a white paper that recently came out talking about it. And what are we talking? What is it? The content, the subject, the purpose of getting together this past summer was to talk about advice delivery in 2030. Advice delivery in 2030. Not far away at all, actually. I want to talk a little bit about that today with you because I think that this, I don't want to call it a project, but this gathering of sorts was just so powerful. Uh, one to experience firsthand, but also to be putting this out there for advisors and for the world. And so tell us a little bit about how did this kind of idea of we should be talking about what advice delivery in 2030 looks like. How did that come to fruition?

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Well, as you know, and maybe some of your audience knows, I'm I'm I call myself the recovering financial planner, someone who had been, I guess it's 27 years now, I've been a financial practitioner. Uh, 19, I gave up all my licenses and decided to really drive asset map home and train now people. And the technology that we create out, created in our firm was what helped us grow to you know, over a billion of assets under management and you know, build real careers using that product. And then I showed it on stage and it just became this thing and it took over my life. And throughout that period of time, I've always been representing the advisor. I think of myself as always the um I'm the first customer of our product, and I I want to change the industry. I want to help it grow, I want to help it evolve, especially as it helped me. So, in many ways, it's it's been an opportunity to help build a community. And that's what this event was really about, Ashley. It was about bringing together people who have different backgrounds, different experiences, and help us answer the question of what do we need to invest in over the next five years to arrive in five years, 2030, and being able to deliver advice in a way that makes sense. And that means you have to think about the demographics, you have to think about technology changes, certainly artificial intelligence. You need to think about revenue, you need to think about psychographics, you need to think about behavior. And that's why it was fantastic to have you represent that very important aspect of how advice is going to be delivered because advisors need to evolve. We cannot continue to do what we've always done and expect the same outcome. So I think it was a great opportunity for us to debate and share and hear different perspectives and then put that together in something that was digestible for the community. And now it's actually hosted on wealthmanagement.com. You can go download it now. Uh, it's available uh to the community, uh, no cost, just go get it and see the summary of all those findings.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah, it is again, my biases are showing a fantastic paper that was that was put together. And you know, being a part of it was certainly an honor. What I loved about this question of what will advice delivery look like in 2030 was really all the different things that you talked about, right? What is the human role? What is tech's role, AI's role, all of these things, because these are all components when we look at advice delivery. And so I guess maybe what I'm wondering from your standpoint, you gathered all of these brilliant, fantastic people from the finance industry. What were you, you know, really hoping for, wanting to see? What were maybe some of the different angles that in thinking about what advice delivery looks like that you are wanting to capture?

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Yeah. That's a good question. I I think, you know, like most projects, right? What you expect to get out of it, and then you get something completely different, or maybe just some better nuance of what the right question was. Just the funny thing about, I think, ironically, as an aside, the reason why AI is so powerful is because if you know the right questions to ask, you can get some pretty amazing answers. And if you ask poor questions, you're gonna get poor answers. And and I think the major question that we were trying to address was is what is going to be the fundamental nuance? What is the thing, the one thing to invest in to make sure that we arrive in 2030 as a highly capable, let alone even still in business, by the way. And the number one answer is not technology. And yet it's the one thing we all talk about all the time. Generally, it's more exciting to talk about the newest AI tool I got, or the coolest like tax planning software I got, or my neat new financial plan. I mean, even Asset Map falls into some of these categories, but 95% of the answers from across the board, multiple disciplines, different backgrounds, et cetera, are all saying it's all about the human role. What? Yeah. There's a lot of fear out there that says actually that AI is going to disintermediate these human roles. And I think it will intermediate, disintermediate some roles and some functions. It has to, right? That kind of in that level of innovation is going to affect things that we just don't understand. But what is very clear is something that I think Jeff Bezos said, right, the founder of Amazon, when he was asked, even gosh, 10 years ago, what's what's the thing to invest in? What change are you investing in? He says, that's not the right question. The question is what's not going to change in 10 years? There's going to be lots of change. What's not going to change? And generally, for our business, when humans need to make a decision that's either difficult or there's a high cost of being wrong, they want a human, an advocate to bounce that idea off. And if that's true, as people get more and more complexity through their life financially, and we have less time to make make up for it, we're generally going to want another human. So who are they going to call? And that's really, I think, the bigger question that everybody needs to start answering for themselves. Why are you relevant? Why are you not a commodity? Because tech is going to eliminate a lot of the stuff you differentiated on. In fact, it's probably going to make everybody look very similar. So how are you going to differentiate? And almost all of it comes down to it's the skill of the human, their capacity, their empathy, their experience, their bench, their team, their structure, their compensation, and maybe their tech. Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

I uh echo one, everything that you're saying. And I was there. Of course I do, right? And I think that I hear a lot of that too, around AI and tech, like taking over. And, you know, I have said and will say that the you know, financial advice, the technical stuff will be table stakes in 2030. That's kind of a duh, like expected, right? Yeah. And but knowing how to engage the human and bring your own level of humanness into the relationship. You know, you talked about or mentioned, you know, commoditizing, and that you can't, that can't be the relationship piece, right? So, okay, if we're talking about, you know, one of the biggest outcomes from this discussion and from this group is just that, you know, tech is going to be great, certainly helpful. But the role of the human will be most important, right? Can we get a little bit like granular here around maybe what does that look like, the role of the human? Because it's, I kind of, you know, have my own therapeutic view of what that might look like. But like for an advisor, that sounds a little like out there. What might this look like for a financial advisor?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

This drove me crazy because almost all the answers that we were hearing from individuals when, and in fact, you see this kind of in the social pundits like you gotta humanize, you gotta deliver more humanity, you gotta have a human in the loop. And everyone's like, what the heck does that mean? Please, like, how do I go institute? I'm a human, I showed up. Okay, there, I'm in the loop. Like, I'm on the thread. I saw the email. Like, I'm here. What are you talking about? So it's interesting because there's there's more debate around this codifying this definition. And I would say that look, the one, the one most wonderful word is empathy on this one. It's right, it's recognition that you're going through something and then being a human to help you make a decision. I I think the fundamental problem with financial advice is that there's an intellectual component and there's this behavioral component. The advisors don't think about it this way, but here's the way I think about it. Because BFI or behavioral finance is really just popping up in lots of ways. You're very involved in this, and obviously Megan is very involved in this. And I think a lot of advisors don't even understand that, right? So let me frame it to you the following way intelligence, knowing what to do, whether it's artificial or advisor-driven, is understanding intellectually what needs to happen. Based upon this information, I solved the problem, this is what needs to happen. Behavior is doing what you know. I know what to do, I do what I know. And what is the biggest challenge we all have in almost everything? It's not that we don't know what to do, we just don't do what we know. And that's why the behavioral component is so critical. Because if we can get people to save, to budget, to prioritize, to think estate, think legacy, think intention, think we can get them to start doing, because we know they don't do it on their own, by the way. Even when we give them all the tech, they don't do it. Most of the people don't do it. And I think what we're really talking about is how does the human coach become an advocate for being someone who helps them behave in their best interests, not just know what to do. And that's the evolution that we're really talking about being a human advocate.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

There was this great quote from the white paper that I'll just read off here. And it says, humans don't hire advisors because they can't find answers online. They hire them because they can't find peace there. And I think this speaks a lot to, yeah, right. That's a good question. Your white paper. I don't know. I don't know. Whoever wrote that white paper. Whoever wrote that white paper put that in there.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

I guess we wrote that. I'll take credit.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

I'm gonna put your name beside it. And I think it speaks to one, it's a fantastic quote. I loved it. I, you know, when I went through, I highlighted it like that stood out to me because I think that, you know, it's spot on. But also speaking to the point that you're just making here in terms of that role of the human. I mean, we can tech can certainly help with the answers. It can help close like the knowing, doing gap. But I don't know about you, but if I'm typing in like my AI, who I call Otis, if I'm top, if I'm typing in talking with Otis, yeah. That's fine. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

We have another discussion about that one. Why Otis? But okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

That's a conversation for yeah, for a moment. Okay, fine. That's fine. Um, but as Otis and I are having having a conversation, there have been plenty of moments where the feedback that I have received, the answer, I'm like, that makes sense. Okay, I could do that, but I don't feel better. Like, I don't feel better. But if I go and I take that same question to, let's just say, you know, a professional, I've asked like our tax professional, like same answer, but that human-to-human like contact, you know, like hearing it from like the, oh, okay, I feel better. I feel better now. You know, that coaching role that you just mentioned, like that's where advisors will shine and being able to help do that, but also giving them that peace, that peace of mind as well.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

When you mention feeling, and you say that three times in a couple sentences, we are deluding ourselves as advisors to think that people are making logical decisions, right? We bring all this logic to the table, analysis, Monte Carlo, perspective, whatever, all that, right? And then we say, okay, there you go. I've done the research, and this is what it says. You should do this. Plus, I take my experience, I add it on top of it, and here's what I can actually do. And that's where we go. The client has a feeling of trust and confidence based upon that process. And then they decide to give you their life savings and say, Yeah, charge me 1%. Yep. And as long as the client feels like you are acting in their best interest, I said feel doesn't, that doesn't mean they have a knowledge or evidence. They will stick with you for 20 years. They will even fight the relationship for the relationship when someone comes in and tries to take it away, like, no, I can't leave Mary. I can't leave Joe. They've been there for me. It's not got to do with financial decisions. It's feeling. And the reality is that I think one of the things that we discount all the time is that what I call relationship capital is the biggest asset on an advisor's balance sheet because it's the goodwill that you've accrued with clients as a result of building trust. And that's why they're with you. Not because they understand what you're doing for them. They just trust that you're doing it better than they could on their own. And that's good enough. By the way, it allows for an enormous amount of underproductivity or underperformance, or as well as, you know, not necessarily a great value proposition, which is why I think it's so critical, Ashley, that the next five years we pay attention because direct-to-consumer technology for planning, investments, insurance, all that stuff knows it. And they know they want that margin too, and they're willing to deliver it at a tenth the cost. It's going to be really interesting for advisors to convey that they're delivering value. And it's why we're seeing advisors having to, in this advice delivery, widen their ability to deliver value. That means no longer just investments andor insurance and some planning in there. Tax, legal, the state, multi-gen. Like we're going towards the family office fast. Uh, and I think the the price, the price points of that are getting much lower for getting that kind of service.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

That client experience is gonna start to matter a whole lot more.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

It's the whole function.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Right. Yeah. And that can look like a lot of different things, but ultimately clients are gonna want your value will be in terms of not only can they trust you, but also what kind of experience are you bringing to them in a way that communicates value and trust as well? Okay, so we talked a little bit about like advice in 2030. There's gonna be this, you know, the role of the human is really important. The human advisor, the role of the human advisor is really, really important. What else is going to matter other than that, Adam, in 2030 when it comes to advice delivery? What did you guys find from some of the results?

SPEAKER_01 18:14

What else is gonna matter? It's kind of like the 80-20 rule, right? 80% of it's gonna be the human rule. You mean the other like little pieces, the 20%'s here and there? Uh I think that process is gonna be important. We asked four core questions, right? What is the human role in advice delivery in 2030? What is technology's role in 2030? Pretty much everybody said this is gonna be an AI-dominated landscape. One of the things I I will I will tell or offer for anybody to think about is yes, AI is gonna play a role, but it's probably gonna attach to a lot of our existing infrastructure tools, CRM, planning tools, uh, asset allocation, take out a lot of the kind of grunt work, allow our delegates uh and our staff to really be superpowered, which means we they can probably handle more clients. I think there's there was a definite attitude that scaling doesn't necessarily mean helping five times as many clients. It probably means culling, actually, and then you know, basically layering our firms and having tiers of clients that are served by different age groups and so forth. And that that really brought into the third question, which what does the firm of the future look like? And how are you going to create a firm or an organization that has the depth of experience as well as the diversity of acumen, whether it's legal tax insurance, or whether it's business planning, estates, and behavioral finance, or maybe it's even just generationally I have somebody in their 70s, 60s, 50s, 40s, 30s, and 20s, so I can relate to the customer of the future. And maybe they don't look like me, by the way, too. So that means adding different ethnicities, races, and genders on my team so that when they show up to the meeting, someone feels like they connect with somebody in the room as opposed to be like, no, that's grandpa, like whatever. And I and I don't, I'm not, but I'm not staying here because my even because my dad liked you and played golf with you, like I'm not here. But oh, you bring in someone who looks like me and they've got a tattoo too, and I'm like, hey, what's up, yo? And they can connect with me and relate to me and my challenges. I think that's really important. So the composition of the firm of the future has to be thoughtful to what the client of the future is gonna look like. And it probably won't look like your current client base. That thoughtfulness will add to capital value of the firm. So that's what's in it for you, not just I just want to be empathetic. And then the last question is what skills? So the bigger skills that pretty much every that that I'm I'm summarizing now, you gotta go read the paper. The skills that people focused on were clearly, obviously, empathy, as well as skills of how do I use my technology. We're seeing a lot of people buy tech and not do the training. I typically tell people at Asset Map, you should spend at least two to three times what you spend on your SaaS software on training your people. So if you're gonna spend $1,000 a year on software, you should put $2,000 into training them professionally. Don't say like we need these brochures, try to figure it on your own. You're gonna use 10% of the product. You paid 100% for it. So the point is that we're not seeing the aligned investment in education. Just assume the tech is gonna just oh, it'll just add some scale value. Oh, yeah, not really. So the skills that people will need will be accredited. You remember our friend Brianna Blaney, she also has started a whole new accredation on uh at the Anya Wealth Institute, which is you know, how do you think beyond finances and think about health, mindset, and wellness? I think you're gonna see a lot of advisors need to differentiate by bringing a whole different mindset to the table that people are gonna get inspired by and they're gonna they're gonna get excited.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Yeah, I would agree with you. You know, from a skills standpoint, I think that is where I would selfishly like to see a lot of growth happening and money put towards, you know, shameless plug here, maybe even into beyond the plan. Like you never know, but maybe. But those skills around even not just even around how to. Communicate and show empathy, but even like I think about skills like uh how to navigate financial transitions. Like, do you know how to do that not just from a number standpoint, but from a dynamic standpoint, uh relational standpoint, helping them? There's, you know, a lot of other just skills there, other than just being a good communicator, uh, how to, you know, conflict resolution, whether it's within families, multi-gen families, or even within a couple. Like, do you know how to navigate that? Not in such a way that you're a therapist, but just in such a way that it doesn't continue to derail the plan, you know, enough, right? How to do it enough of. You know, I think those types of skills, along with everything that you shared and our interests, will be hugely valuable when it comes to what advice delivery in 2030 will begin to look like. Now, we've talked a little bit about technology's role here. And I am pro asset map. I am a, well, I'm not a professional. Uh I am like for asset map. I think you guys are cool. I think, you know, demoing, looking at, you know, when you've run me through, you know, the user experience, what that looks like. I think it's awesome. How is asset map really helping advisors on this advice delivery in 2030? Like, how are you guys, how are you guys doing that? You have to spill it, you don't have to spill any like top secret secrets or anything, but like what are you guys doing? Market top secret is the worst way. I mean, you could do it heard here, heard here on planning and beyond. Okay, fine. Exposure. If you yeah, if you want to do it that way. But what are you guys, how are you guys helping advisors when it comes to leading like the next generation of advisors and moving forward?

SPEAKER_01 23:36

I love this question. You know why I love this question? Because I've been doing it for 15 years and now people are ready to hear it.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Maybe or maybe.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Well, let's see.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

The people who have been in the business for years know what I'm talking about or what I'm about to talk about. They understand this. The wealthier clients that you've talked to, you understand what I'm gonna tell you. The advisors that are starting out in the business, uh and younger, I'm hoping you're gonna hear what I'm gonna tell you because this is critical. This is critical. The value, as I just told you, of an advisor's practice is the relationship, right? If I use technology to differentiate myself, don't be surprised if you're basically going to be replaced by that technology. So that means, as an advisor, the clients that I've had for 10, 15, 20 years are worth billions of dollars, billionaires. They consistently care about two things. Number one, how are you making my life easier or better? Don't complicate my life, make it easier. I'm not paying you to complicate it. I'm paying you a thousand, two thousand dollars an hour. You're gonna help me basically get back to what matters most. You're buying back time. And you really better be a communicator. I happen to think that the future of financial planning is all about conversations. It's really where the human basically shines. And the traditional financial planning has been about an analytics answer. Let me give you your Monacarlo. Let me tell you when you're gonna run out of money. Let me tell you what's the best investment to make based upon my model that my company blesses, that that's how I make my money. And traditional financial planning has overwhelmingly, I say this lovingly, it's been a sales enablement process for years to help a person who is confused, complicated, and overwhelmed basically get closer to some seemingly logical decision that I'm gonna say it serves the advisor's interest in many ways. And I benefited from this. So you want you to know. So I built a billion-dollar practice, a billion-dollar asset practice, I should say that, on this concept. And I realized that what is the real the most important thing, actually, was how do I deliver conversations. So everything that asset map does today is not about analytics anymore. We are we are basically saying, you want to you want to use eMoney, right capital, all these other cool tools? Fantastic. You should use them. Excel, AI, I don't care. They're all gonna be replaced by AI anyway. We're gonna focus on how do we elevate the human conversation. And that is almost entirely around three major things. You want to know what they are? Number one, who matters to you? The people in your car, the people in your world, the people you have interdependency. I need to visually show you that I understand what that looks like. So we build visual relationship maps, right, in Asset Map, whether connected to your CRM or you just tell me, I will show you. We need to confirm who's on the bus because that's gonna be your motivation for pretty much everything you do. Number two is what are your financial priorities? Like, what are they really? And let's rank them, let's go through and actually organize them. Is this more important than this? Is estate planning more important than uh, let's say, education funding? Is education funding more important than buying a second home? I need to understand priorities and we're gonna negotiate them live on screen, full drag and drop. Like you're gonna get involved. No more presentation. You're you're participating, okay? This is your life. I'm not running the car for you. You can get behind the wheel and you need to be empowered. So, two things people, priorities. Number two, number three and four is what have you already done? Where is it? I need to now look at this and say, like, does your inventory match the people in the bus and the priorities? Because very often they're haphazard. So the key to this is I can have a conversation. If I know those three things, three or four things, right? Who, why, what's your why, what and where. The whole if and when questions are analytical things are like, what can are you gonna run out of money? Like, that's math. But if I can if I can align your finances with intention visually, and you like understand it, and I'm the purveyor of that graphic, holy macro. The the amount of trust and credibility that I have is addictive. And the wealthier you work up in the marketplace, you know that this is, they like, they love this stuff. You're making their life simple and you're talking about what really matters. Intentionality crushes all other things, including performance. So if I can get advisors to have to facilitate that more meaningful conversation, they're gonna win. And the business is gonna be stickier, they're gonna get referrals, they'll work multi-generational, and they'll get what they want out of it. And I'm super fired up about it because I have been doing this in my own practice, and we prove it now. Thousands and thousands of advisors, millions of people in asset map already. Like people want this. And that's what we're doing. We're gonna be investing in everything that we've learned in that a that advice engagement event to help an advisor really just arrive and crush it.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

I love the people piece and aspect of it. And you know, I know I've shared this with you before. Like it reminded me of like a genogram, like a family tree, like in therapy. Like we would map out who are the people, as you said, like on the bus, who are the people that are meaningful to you. And four, I'm hesitant to say women, um, because I know this also applies to men. It certainly does, but very concerned about the other people in our life and how are they being considered andor taken care of when I'm making financial decisions. And it always amazes me, and this is not a judgment. Um, maybe it is. I don't know. It could be. Uh, it could be.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Um I made a couple statements that probably will get people upset. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

I am usually amazed at how many advisors do not know like their clients' children, how many children they have, like whether this is a first or second marriage, do they have step kids, like just some of the I'll I'll call basics of a family map, how they just don't know like the people that are in their in their lives. And I think that, you know, when we talk about you know advice delivery in the future, like that's gonna matter. That's going to matter. And if you don't know the people on the bus, clients are gonna be like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Well, you're skunking yourself. And you know why? Because I've been doing this for a good number of years now. And I say that because I've I've experienced this for real. I'm not just making it up. Something changes when you always look at a financial planning experience, like you're just putting up with the canned software that's driving the presentation. And it's just you and your, you know, hypertypical spouse. Here's you and your partner. Okay. And they are the focus of attention of everything. But as soon as they leave that room, probably their kids are more important to themselves. They'll make major sacrifices. We all do, good or not. We for our kids. We probably make unseemingly strange concessions for our parents if they're still gobbling living with us, right? It doesn't, I don't know why I'm doing that, but I'm gonna do that. They're important to us in ways. And of course, we might even have kind of obligations and kind of moral standards of how we're gonna who's gonna take care of them. And then maybe I've also, you know what? Actually, I got a brother, and my brother's not really great with money, and my mom elected me to be the trustee of and the executor. She never told me now, all of a sudden I've got to deal with that dynamic. So the financial household is much more complicated than the financial planning software has ever traditionally been arranged for. The modern, what we do at ASMF, the modern financial planning says, what does generation number one look like above you? Are your parents still alive? What's their health? What's their wealth? Is there going to be dependency here, or do I need to think about tax strategies, or do I need to think about family dynamics? Because dad owns a business and your brother wants it and you could care less. Do I need to think and bring strategies to the table? Oh, wait, you do that as well? Yes, I do that. Now, the client didn't know to ask us that, or to know that there's just time bombs or just traps that they could be avoiding. But if I don't bring it up, I'm like, well, have you thought about putting this in trust? And if you put this in trust, maybe we should add this secondary provision that gives you some creditor protection. Would that be of interest? Oh, it does. I am worried about getting sued. Oh, so the point is that the family financial kind of household is much bigger than the typical two registrants we actually put accounts in for. It's generation one, it's generation two and three. It's probably siblings, it's probably business partners that I didn't went into ventures with. There's obligations here. And when you actually look at a relationship map for somebody who's created some level of sophistication, Ashley, you actually see eight, nine, 10 people there. And guess guess who else can work with me? Oh, I can work with all these people. So in our practice, we work multi-generationally and we go sideways. Acquisition cost from a business standpoint goes down to very low because I don't need to find my next customer. They're right in front of me. And by serving all of these generations in different ways, small and large, right? I build credibility within the family. Guess what happens when the kids wind up taking over for mom and dad as they get older and their finances and they're kind of like, I need my kids to get involved. I'm embedded.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

I already know who they are.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

They already met me. I've had family meetings and they're on the map, by the way. And I needed to have conversations with them because they're going to be in role. And I told them what their role is going to be. And I'm like, well, they can't do without Adam.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

And I know their kids. And I know the in-laws.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

And they're on the screen. And we can talk about changes. I don't need to ask awkwardly, by the way, how's your children doing? Like they're on the screen. I say, like, by the way, is Billy still into soccer, or like, oh no, he's changed.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Is that how your awkward voice is?

SPEAKER_01 32:30

That's how that's how my awkward voice is.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Okay. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

I do different roles based upon who I'm emulating.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Okay. What would Otis say? What's Otis's voice? That's what I want to know. Liz.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

I need to think about that. I need to think about that one and come up with think about it.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

I do need to think about what Otis. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

I think it's in my head. You know, I hear it in my head. But I don't say it's not.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Okay. People might uh yeah, now my credibility is definitely like, I don't know. Either that or the very real. Wow. It reminds me, kind of talking about these generations, it reminds me of this going back to kind of my clinical therapy days in graduate school, learning about systems theory. Uh, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, right? And so I just think about from like a total financial planning standpoint, having not just, if you just focus on the couple, the dyad, right? If that's your sole focus, right? Like you're missing so much, right? Like that one little part is you can, you know, know a lot and get some information, but like the whole, right, is comprised of all of these parts. And you will make such a big impact from just a complete, you know, total financial planning standpoint when you understand all of the parts and know what they are and how they all work together and are interconnected.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah. Look, and there's plenty of arguments on the financial planning side that that are just intellectual and not emotional or feelings-based that justify this as well. I think we're going to see some really interesting best interest challenges and lawsuits around advisors who pretended to be fiduciaries and then never asked, uh, never protected the second generation who was not their client by making sure their parents had a long-term care strategy or that their assets were in trust when they could have been, or their insurances were owned correctly, or mapped out in such a way where they would have avoided probate. Like there's going to be some really interesting, I think, attacks on our industry that will be some warranted, some of course frivolous. But I think advisors need to pay attention. And it requires an empathetic awareness that it's not just about what we've always done to get what we've always gotten. We're going to have to think differently and more evolved and broader. Like I said earlier, we've we've seen that in the feedback. Advisors are going to need to be aware about legal, tax, insurance, investment, banking, family dynamics, right? Behavior, coaching, paralysis, all these other things that are going to help people, as well as, like you said, even dealing with uh emotional journey of transition, loss of, you know, what do I do when I lose dad? Like, what is that gonna mean to our emotional journey? What is my legacy gonna be? Do I need to think beyond one year or are we talking 100-year legacy? Like, I think we're gonna be able to we have the permission now, we just don't take it. Because I think a lot of advisors are running the same old play, run the asset, you know, take the assets over management and then do an annual review, talk high level enough to the client stays with us, go play golf. Repeat, repeat, repeat. What a great life and what a great income. But I don't think it's I don't think it's gonna work in the same way.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

I don't think it will either. And what's interesting is that so I had a prospect reach out this week and they actually talked a little bit about they said something to that effect of like, we have found that we're just having the same old conversations and it doesn't, it's it's not starting to feel good. So I think even on like the advice, we've been talking about like kind of what the clients want, but I think even advisors are like, this doesn't feel good to just, you know, rinse, wash, repeat, have the same conversations and go play golf. Sure, for some there might be like that might be, but I also think that there will be a growing desire, even on the advisors in to do and be more and to make a bigger impact there. So I'm hopeful that'll be the case.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Well, I think the the look, the industry is going to force it. We obviously have an aging out generation of advisors. So depending upon you know your audience, if you're listening, you know, where you kind of put yourself. Are you in that later stage of the the career where you've you've created lifestyle perhaps, and maybe you've created some some financial stability and it's about time to mentor the next generation. I will tell you, as you probably already know from your clients, the the clients that retire, they die fast if they have no purpose. So, or their health goes downhill. So I really kind of encourage some of our peers that are thinking late stage as an advisor, or if you know someone like this, find ways to give them purpose. And that's really, I think the best one is through mentorship. And I think what we're gonna see is a fantastic opportunity for advisors who have successful long-term careers to understand the nuances of human dynamics, which have been a little bit questionably lost with this technology innovation over the past bunch of years. They're gonna be great ways to build and lift people at be mentors, be advocates, and stay engaged and involved and do the stuff you love, delegate the rest. And that's that's a big thing. I don't know if you saw that Kitz has talked about in his recent research that the advisors that have created the highest revenue per advisor have figured out how to scale the busy work completely off their schedule so they can spend most of their time doing the highest revenue work, which is also sometimes the most fulfilling. It's connecting, it's problem solving, it's relating, it's being there for people, it's mentoring, uh, whether it's a client or a next gen uh or you know, a mentee. I think those are really the things that we need to focus on.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

I would agree with you, my friend. All right, as we are sadly having to wrap things up, at least for like today, is there anything else that you feel like for listeners out there, you know, if they're thinking about, oh, this is interesting, advice delivery in 2030, just high level that they should be aware of, that they should know or look at or consider.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

What's your best value? What do you love doing in this business? Like, what's the part that you really feel you're great at and people honor and respect? And I think if you think about it enough, it's the connection that we have with our clients. It's the long-term trust and credibility that we have earned with these clients and understanding the power and important responsibility that we have over their financial future, which we cannot take lightly. And I I think it's an opportunity for all of us to think how do I deliver on the value proposition? I encourage, I encourage everybody to think about how they actually deliver that experience in a way where it's helping the customer be empowered, not just dependent. And that's the that's the kind of the real push is I believe that clients will have long-term success if we can help them, like a coach, actually be more productive when we're not in the room. And we're gonna accrue that that value, that value, that benefit, that contribution, and I think fulfillment as a result to knowing we're delivering more than just a business proposition. So I encourage people to figure out how they can have that financial planning conversation um and and own it and then find a way to delegate everything else you don't want to do. That's the beauty of our business, Ashley.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Oh, yes. And so wonderfully said, Adam. I appreciate you. So wonderfully said. All right, my friend, where can people find you? Where can they connect with you if they want to learn more? They want more Adam Holt.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Oh my gosh, why would they want that? Uh yeah, no, I think uh you can come over to my place. Um, LinkedIn is probably the best way to find me these days. I respond to DMs, so certainly follow or connect me on LinkedIn. Uh, that's the best way. We're obviously we're gonna be promoting more of YouTube and I'm just putting a huge amount of content out there these days. Um, really excited about that. That's my give back to community. So I encourage anybody who's interested to stay connected.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Love it. Love it. We'll make sure that we include all of that in the show notes. Uh, so thank you. Thank you for coming on and being a part of this and sharing all of your insights.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

I appreciate what you're doing, Ashley. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

And thank you to all of you out there listening today. Thank you for allowing Adam and I into your mind, into your ears, uh, a part of your week. You don't have to, but you are choosing to. And for that, I am incredibly grateful for if you found this conversation valuable, if it resonated with you, I'd love to keep the connection going. You can find me on LinkedIn at Ashleyquame, where I share weekly insights around the human side of planning. You can also follow the show so that you never miss a conversation like this one. And if reading is your jam, if reading is something that you enjoy, you can head on over to our website, www.beyondthefp.com, and sign up for our monthly newsletter where we share insights and strategies all around how to integrate the human side of planning into your firm. But as we wrap up this incredible episode, I want you to go about your week, go into your weekend if it's the end of the week, and remember that finances don't have feelings, but your clients do. Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond. Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond. I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more advisors like you who are dedicated to making a difference. For more resources, tips, and to continue the conversation, visit our website at beyondthefp.com. You'll find articles, tools, and information about upcoming episodes designed to support your journey and practice. Stay connected with us on social media and never miss an update. Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn. And remember, the best way to grow is to keep learning and sharing. Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going being.