SPEAKER_00 0:00

Naming it and doing it, that is what moves financial planning from being a service to an experience. I'm gonna have a, we're gonna play a game, we're gonna try this thing, we're gonna go through these cards, we're gonna talk about this deal, we're gonna try this tool, whatever. And you're gonna get people to think in a different way, and you're gonna be facilitating and taking them through that. That is an experience, which I think is a whole other level of service than how we currently treat it.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show where financial planning meets human understanding. As an exceptional financial advisor, you know that financial planning is about more than just numbers. It's about giving clients the clarity they need to align their money with what matters most. Which is why each episode is designed with that goal in mind. You'll learn how to uncover the psychology behind client decisions and gain insights and behavioral strategies needed to create deeper, more meaningful client relationships. You'll discover techniques for navigating emotional client situations drawn from conversations with leading industry experts in behavioral finance, psychology, communication, and more. Whether it's mastering discovery meetings, handling sensitive client conversations, or understanding what is truly keeping your client stuck, you'll walk away with not only strategies that you can use in your next client meeting, but also the confidence to do so. Oh yeah, hi. I should probably introduce myself. I'm your host, Ashley Kwame, a therapist who somehow wandered into the world of financial behavior and kind of decided to stay. My mission is to help you bridge the gap between financial planning and human understanding. Because remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do. Let's dive in. And today, uh repeat guest, VIP guest partner in crime. Dr. Megan Larts is joining me here. Today, Meg. Hello, friend. How are you? I'm I'm well. This is small talk, technically, just the how are you? I just want to make a note that that technically, right? Is asking how are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:24

You get one.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

You get one. All right. For those of you who do not know, Meg and I have a we are sit on opposite sides around whether small talk is useful, beneficial, needed, or good. So we sit on opposite sides of that. There. That's for another day, another podcast. This is gonna be a little bit of maybe a different type of episode than before. Typically, when guests come on, I interview them. We bring insights, knowledge, wisdom, nuggets, all of the things. And not that this is not going to have insights and wisdom, but a little bit just of a different purpose for maybe today. And so instead of interviewing Meg and having her share everything, all of her brilliance and wisdom, today, we're actually going to be talking a little bit about Beyond the Plan and just the direction that it's heading as a business, as an approach. Some things that Meg and I have been working on collaboratively behind the scenes, that pretty friggin' pumped about. Yeah, super, super, super excited. If you can't hear it in our voices, we are really trying to do our best not to laugh.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

So we are we are being super serious.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

We're being super, this is our very serious voice right now, so that we don't bust out into laughter and get way off track. But we're gonna share a little bit about uh what we what we've called, what we are calling the five core domains of beyond the plan. And so this is something that Meg and I have talked about for the last several months, just in terms of a like approach to how we want to think about financial planning, how we want to think about supporting advisors, how we want to think about even client support and firm support. And so we thought that with the new year upon us, that this might be just a really great time, natural time for us to jump on and share a little bit about kind of behind the scenes what's been going on for us. So, Meg, just kind of with that, let's like high level, like would you add anything kind of to that around these like five domains before we name them? Cause there's some anticipation, like they're like in general, like even like philosophy or approach that you might add about these domains that we're gonna get into here.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

I think the only thing I want to add, it's kind of come from a topic that we have been talking around, but could not necessarily name until somewhat recently. And it's just it's this idea of experiences that financial planning is an opportunity to provide experiences. And so, you know, we get calls and questions and stuff like that from advisors all the time. They're like, Yeah, that's cool that you say that I should talk about values, or I get it that there should probably be, you know, something that I do when these couples walk in the door, but like, what is that? How do I make that a thing? And so we we have really tried to think about how to make that a thing and so and to help help advisors, support advisors in having developing, deploying experiences around fire planning.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

I really love that. I love that statement that you just said that financial planning is an opportunity to give or create experience, right? And so, in this kind of what I'm hearing from a buzzwordy standpoint, like the experience economy, you know, things like that. So I'm about to just reframing a little bit of what is financial planning. And I think exactly what you just said that it is an opportunity to create experiences for clients. And so naturally, what does that look like? And lucky for you, Meg and I have all the answers. Um maybe. Or a few, maybe we have a few. We have a few.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

We got a place to start.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

We have a place to start. We have a few ideas, we have a few, a few things. So, in in one of this, this is where really just kind of these five core domains kind of came out of. Um, is that if we scale back and look at really what is financial planning, what is it getting at? There are five core themes, domains that really emerged for us. So for those of you listening, the five core domains are one, security and freedom, two, connection and relationship, three, growth and discovery, four, health and vitality. And lastly, number five, impact and legacy. So we have security and freedom, connection and relationship, growth and discovery, health and vitality, impact and legacy. And so a lot to just kind of throw at you there for a second. I think maybe what's most natural, Meg, maybe we just start at the top and just kind of work our way down. So, in thinking about like security and freedom, maybe let's let's put a little bit of definition to this for everyone. Like, what are we talking about when we say like security and freedom?

SPEAKER_00 7:12

One of the things that you and I have even talked about, this one is so interesting because it's like it's the yin and the yang, you know, and it's we always think, you know, that we gotta strike a balance. Like somewhere, somehow, there is this pendulum or there's like this scale. And if I could get it just right, I would have this perfect magical balance of both security and freedom in my life. But it doesn't really quite work like that. And I think through every season, you know, there might be different securities and freedoms, you know, that need to be reviewed. You and I've talked about, you probably even know better than I do, that sometimes you walk in and there's a couple and one's the security member and the other one is the freedom member.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah, we know who that is. I know who you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Yeah. And this one can show up, you know, in so many ways, whether it's how you spend your time, you know, time autonomy. It can show up related to decision independence. You know, do you feel that you can spend on the things that you want to when you want to do it? There's career flexibility and financial security being a big one. But these are all different manifestations, all different conversations that it's one of those things that has to constantly be traversed, constantly reviewed. And this is not a bad thing. In fact, I think sometimes it can be freeing, you know, to think that there is no perfect thing and that and that you're not failing if you're not hitting that. But, you know, how do you articulate that? How do you talk to clients about that? What are the different conversations that you could have? Could you break these different things apart? Is there a tool, you know, that you could help put them, you know, in front of the client and say, let's think through this? Because these are really important, like some of the biggest things that people say when you ask them things like, what do you value? Security and freedom are at the top of everybody's list.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

The top for sure. And ultimately, you know, I think about too, like at a very basic level, this is also what advisors are really like striving for with clients is that balance for giving their clients security and freedom. Like advisors may not say it directly in that way, but like when you funnel things down, like what are you trying to give your clients? Security and freedom is probably pretty darn close to being that answer there. But in terms of what is it, what does it look like? You know, there's a lot, a lot of different sub-kind of topics there. Some of them, you know, that you that you've mentioned. I think it is always very interesting, shockingly, within a couples system when there are just you know opposing or complementary. I prefer complimentary, it just sounds nicer and fluffier. Complimentary approaches to couples therapists, right? Yes, like a true couples, it is complimentary, it is not some tea.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yes, we're gonna hold our pinkies, we're gonna hold our pinky while we're doing that. It is always very interesting and tricky for advisors when it is different within the couple or even larger, like the family system, like maybe even between generations here. But when we, you know, to bring it back to you know, high level, like with Beyond the Plan, like this is such an important domain that is, you know, one, you know, advisors and firms, you know, should be looking at how are we talking about this, as you said? What tools and resources are we giving our clients? Do we know how to navigate these conversations or the red flags, if you will, for maybe when this is a problem, like this domain is like on fire. It needs some attention because there's maybe differences between two partners. One wants to spend a whole lot more, other wants to save. And yet they both value security, you know, and free, like they name that as a top value, but getting there looks different. So I don't know. This to me was one of like the more easier, like obvious ones that I think shows up, you know, for advisors. What else do you feel like might be helpful in talking about just kind of this domain in particular?

SPEAKER_00 11:26

I think it's we were kind of touching on it, but you know, even though it is really common and it seems like something that we always discuss, and again, you can get clients usually to name these, but the nuance of it, like when you say security, what are you envisioning? What does that look like? When you say freedom, you know, what does that look like? I feel like when we were talking about this before, it always kind of reminds me of uh that Tupac song. Like people have probably their own opinions about that, but there's the Tupac song where he talks about, you know, being able to pay his own rent or, you know, and like help his mom. And I think that is about security and freedom. And that, you know, there are also visions of people that think, oh, they need to have, you know, $10 million in the bank and yeah, you know, that that somehow that would be security and freedom. But getting people to articulate that, you know, I think is its own skill set. And then like what to do with it, you know, like once they've told you that, how do we wrap that back around to actually putting it into the plan somewhere, you know, so that it continually gets, and as we mentioned, these are likely to change, you know, these may always be important, but how much pull or push security or freedom has over your life in any given moment is gonna look different. And so how can we not only have this conversation, but build it in that we are going to continue to have this conversation and update it and that that there it probably is no, we're not actually reaching for a golden mean. You know, we are reaching for adaptation and support. And like what then what does that mean at every step?

SPEAKER_01 12:59

I think that just last piece there that you're talking about in terms of what does it look like, while also knowing that, you know, really I think about this if if I think about it like a document, you know, and clients are rating themselves on a Likert scale, like we're self-report, where do they fall, maybe in each of these domains, like thinking about this as a living, breathing, you know, rating that's going to change over time. I think that is such a great point for all of these domains, right? And where we are now with security and freedom, I've got preteens here in a very short time. Security and freedom is gonna look a lot different in 10 years for Clayton and I than it does right now. That will be different. It will change. We will be spending more money. I can tell you that for sure. So knowing just that and revisiting the conversation, revisiting the theme and everything that comes into it, even updating the definition, if you will, is important. So, okay, let's go on to number two, that second domain of the five core domains is connection and relationships. Uh, and so I think about this as, you know, the bonds, the relationships that really give life a whole lot of meaning to us. And so that can be pretty broad. Tell me for you, or in talking about this, what do you want everyone to know about this domain starting out?

SPEAKER_00 14:20

I think this is always a really hard one to talk about because it seems like really yeah, because I think it seems like it would be weird to ask clients about their relationships.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Okay, I see where you're going. Because I'm silly me, I'm thinking about this from a therapist lens and I'm like, this is the easiest one. Okay, I'm tracking.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

But yeah, but yet we all know that, like in retirement, you know, one of the hardest things about the transition to retirement is that, well, if you're not at work, yeah, you thought you would have these work friends, but then your work friends have to go to work and they really don't care that you get to sit by the lake all day. And so you just you lose touch. And and this is so important. It's like at a brain level, there is so much importance to keeping up relationships, having positive relationships in your life, and you know, being able to talk to clients about that in, you know, in some way, shape, or form becomes so important. But again, it's one of those things where, you know, I feel like a lot of people in our industry say that, like, oh yeah, you should definitely talk to clients about their relationships. But, you know, exactly how you do that, you know, where you bring that up, what might be the various ways, you know, that that could come into play. I think that that's where it gets a little bit weirder or maybe like not quite as clear. And so, you know, that's like we want to help shed more light on that, like how to do that better.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

I think if we kind of take that elevator down a bit more on what relationships, you know, certainly there's the obvious ones, like, you know, a coupleship there asking about their relationships with their children if they have any, or their parents, you know, kind of the up and down generations there, even their family, like extended family, like your siblings. And some of why this is important is because you know, there are things like caretaking might come into play. And so understanding that I think that every advisor should do a basic family tree just to understand who are the members from like a name standpoint and even having those discussions, like, you know, and I know that they do, like, you know, will you be expected to take care of your parents like as they're aging or stuff like that? But are there other members too? And so having that, knowing those relationships is helpful. But there's also other ones, you know, that may not seem as obvious here. And some of those include friendships, like social, social relationships, social support systems, professional relationships. And this could be even for advisors themselves. It may not be like of your clients, but some of this might be applicable for you, but also community involvement. Like how are you involved? Like, because those can be very meaningful bonds, right? Being engaged and out in the community as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

I think, yeah, again, this is one of the most important ones when it comes to positive psychology and even just general mental and physical health. But it can be a one that outside of like, well, you know, what charity do you want to support? And that's important. We should do that. Yay, charities. But like there's many, many ways to probably talk about relationships, talk about how to get more out of your relationships, talk about spending money in the name of your relationships. And, you know, this is gonna be a common theme that Ashley and I probably talk about a lot in 2026 that absolutely matters to uh the things that we're talking about right now. But like, what if you had a meeting that was called like relate, well, you could call it relationships, or you could call it, you know, we're gonna have a community involvement meeting. You know, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about relationships and how important those are. You know, as you're going through this transition, you know, I really I want to spend some time on that. And so whether it's, you know, a little bit of scripting around that, whether it's, you know, I'm really big on naming stuff only because it helps people who have no concept of like what you're talking about, aka your clients, not because they're dumb, but because they've never had a financial planner before. And, you know, now you're saying to them, oh yeah, we should also talk about, you know, your community involvement beyond just, you know, I don't know, donating to the museum. And people might be like, well, what does that even really mean? You know, like what are you talking about? And so having then the tools, the process. Another big thing that comes up here is uh boundaries and you know, expectations of not only the financial planner's role as it matters to all of these relationships, but also what are the boundaries and expectations of the other relationships? I mean, that's one of the most interesting things. Like when you're the son and you become the caretaker, that's hard. You know, when you are family business, you've got family business stuff everywhere that, you know, that it makes that whole thing hard. You know, you're the financial advisor who is who's this person's friend, you know, but now you also have to put on your financial advisor's hat. You know, sometimes that can be really hard. And just what you're comfortable with as a financial advisor. You know, there are some financial advisors out there that are like, okay, yeah, couples disagreeing doesn't bother me. I, you know, I think I can facilitate, you know, a discussion and keep the relationship, you know, at the center and not necessarily take sides with either either uh client. There are others of you that probably think that sounds horrible. And so, you know, it's okay, whichever one you are, but like let's have a plan to talk to the client then about not I don't want to, you know, be involved in your fighting, but like, how are you gonna articulate those expectations so that they know how to work with you as much as you know how to work with them and what's gonna happen, you know, when we get into some of these high emotion situations.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

All right, number three, growth and discovery. So when I think about this, when we've talked about it, like we've talked about things like personal development, educational pursuits, certainly like experiences that may include travel, but it might also, you know, again, kind of include creative expression or, you know, furthering any kind of intellectual curiosity that maybe is not tied to, you know, educational pursuits or career advancements there, but even spiritual, even spiritual growth as well. So looking at from a where are we allocating money, helping clients, you know, kind of within this domain. There's a lot from the growth and discovery place that we can be doing to help and support clients. Share with me, Meg, what comes to mind for you? What's most interesting about some of these? Because we've talked, we were talking this morning about actually some of these as well.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Yeah. This for me is really about that piece of like helping somebody to live an engaged life.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

And I like that word.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Yeah. Thank you. Uh, giving them, giving them permission, you know, to to try new things, you know, encouraging them to experiment, you know, with different ideas. And that that, you know, not only like if we think about positive psychology and the E, you know, stands for engagement, you know, this is something that matters to overall well-being. And it's ultimately something that's tied to money. Like if you're going to be spending on these experiences or taking these classes or whatever thing you want to develop or work on, you know, sometimes it takes, I think, the support from the financial advisor that's like, hey, you know, like what do you want to focus on or think about or, you know, gain a new perspective on, you know, over the next 12 months? Let's plan a couple of experiments, you know, or they're working towards something that's further away, like a like a larger growth milestone. Well, what are the things that we should be focusing on in the next year related to that? You know, we may not cross the threshold or whatever, you know, cross the finish line, but we we can be pursuing things and doing things. Things, you know, related to that. And so this one is maybe more fun than anything else, but you know, to full circle full back around like all the way back around at the beginning of this, where the fact that I can't stand small talk, you know, if you did not think you were going there when you said circle back.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Okay, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Imagine, imagine being, you know, if you've had a monetary meeting where the you're like, hey, yep, things are good, weather's good, yep, got a golf game coming up soon. Oh, look at that. The portfolio is doing okay. All right, see you again in six months. I'm not saying that this is bad, you know, back to my belief that small talk isn't bad, but it doesn't move anything forward. And so if you instead were to say, hey, we're gonna have a growth and discovery meeting, I'm gonna ask you, you know, about different life domains. I'm gonna get you to think about, you know, the different places that you might aim for in terms of growth in this next year. So sure, we'll check in on the portfolio, make sure that we're all, you know, square on that. But that's what we're gonna talk about. That that does move your relationship forward. That does move the conversation in some sort of a direction, you know, and gets people more and more comfortable with the idea of experimenting. And this is this naming it and doing it, that is what moves financial planning from being a service to an experience. I'm gonna have a, we're gonna play a game, we're gonna try this thing, we're gonna go through these cards, we're gonna talk about this deal, we're gonna try this tool, whatever. And you're gonna get people to think in a different way, and you're gonna be facilitating and taking them through that. That is an experience, which I think is a whole other level of service than how we currently treat it. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

What comes up for me with this one and has come up a lot more recently? Sabbaticals, more and more, you know, professionals wanting to do and/or take sabbaticals. You know, this is part of that growth and discovery like domain. How do we do that? You know, what does that look like? There is obviously a financial planning element to that, but client that really wants to go and write this book, but I'm kind of need the time to be able to do that. Or I just want to take a year off and really just be with my kids, like before they start primary school. Like, I just would like to go live in a cool country and you know, take this time off and go and go be with them. There's a lot of growth, right? Obviously, in discovery, like that can come of that, a lot of richness, a lot of experience from that, you know. So I hear that that comes up. I think that can be incredibly valuable for your clients. And I think financial planners sit at the center of being able to support clients, not just from a numbers standpoint, but conversationally helping to explore and maybe even distill, you know, the meaning and what would that mean and how beneficial it would be to them to be able to have that.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah, well, that's like exactly that. That like, what would what would we say? What would this mean? How do I distill this down? Like that, that is all part of the experience of this, that that we're not just, you know, shooting fish in a barrel and calling it a goal, you know, like we're being very thoughtful and we're taking them through these exercises or these thought experiments, you know, to try to, we're being very mindful, you know, about what that means beyond just, I'm not saying you can't just ask a question about, hey, like, is there a hobby, you know, you really want to think more about this year? That is a great place to start. But if the client is, I don't know, maybe having an off day or something like that, or they're like, well, I guess you've never really asked me that before. Like, I don't know. That in many ways it kind of ends the conversation. Whereas if, again, we go back to this idea of treating it as an experience, we're gonna have this meeting. Here are some of the things I want to ask you, here are the different domains, you know, that I want to think through. Let's get serious, you know, about this. That those pieces, I don't feel I mean, we haven't given them. And I don't know very many people in the industry that are giving them, where it's like, again, we talk about these things as like good ideas, but I don't just want good ideas. I want good action.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah, I love that. All right, number four, health and vitality. I think this one, you know, for me comes up there. Well, there's a lot of ways, right? I think when I think about health and vitality, you know, first that comes to mind is, you know, physical health, like mental health. I think that's kind of the obvious one. And certainly planners need to have, you know, there's some impact there around that. But, you know, even things like stress management, that is important to know about, important to have conversations about. And even just how money can, how can money support, support you doing that? We've had some younger couples, you know, where this kind of comes up is being able to allocate money for like gym memberships in very small, small ways, or even from like a wellness standpoint, having a bringing in a chef to do some prepped meals, you know, there. But what are some ways that maybe money can help support kind of this health vitality domain? How do we talk about it? You work with a lot of students. Like, does this come up like in your conversations? Is there I guess to me, what maybe what I wonder is this might be one of those where you said connection relationship is like awkward, but I have actually think this one might be the hardest one to kind of talk about just because it may not exactly connect in an obvious overt way to financial planning. But do you have students that say that?

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Or I have had a student say to me verbatim, younger white male. So I think he was probably in his late 20s, early 30s, and he said, Look, you know, Dr. Laris, I know that like asking about health and about um not just uh like lifespan as people say now, but health span, you know, Peter Atia style, you know, those things are important. But tell me how I'm supposed to sit across from a female client who's 65 and ask her like about her bone density or menopause, or like I get that I'm supposed to ask things about her health, but that seems a little above my pay grade. And I'm like, yes, it is weird to ask about health. But it's also weird, like equally as weird or equally as hard, I think, because when we start to talk about health and we start to talk about energy and we start to talk about physical needs or even adaptive changes, you're making somebody talk about their body and like how it may or may not work as well. And you know, all financial planners would tell you that if you have cancer in your family that you know about, if you have dementia in your family that you know about, then yes, it does increase the chances that you're gonna have it. And it may not be very fun to talk about it, but to not talk about it, that is a reckless financial plan. You know, so like advisors, we need to have language around, you know, how to ask about what we want to do when we're feeling really great and what we want to do when we're not feeling so great. And, you know, everything in between. But asking health questions can be kind of tough just because it's emotionally intense for people. Also, just thinking about that dynamic of like, if you're a male and your client's a female, or vice versa, or you're very young and they are more mature, like then, you know, there's there's some things like that that like we do need to think about or be aware of. This doesn't mean that it's a deal breaker. It doesn't mean don't do it. It just means we need to think, you know, about how we want to bring this up because it is absolutely a part of the financial plan. And for a good financial plan to be in place, we need to think about both good and bad health outcomes. So, how do we bring that to the table and encourage people not only to take care of themselves now, you know, but also in the future and just sort of what those different things look like. So, yeah, I agree this can also be a quite difficult conversation to have. And people, in my experience, advisors have a lot of questions about how to do this well.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Yeah, which is, I mean, it makes a lot of sense to me. I think that there's a lot of different ways to talk about health and vitality. And, you know, certainly a lot of the work that we do and will be doing over, you know, the next year is just offering some guidelines, tools for conversation starters. Here's how, here's how to do this. Here are maybe some areas to start with that might be, you know, comfortable. You know, the last thing I guess that I'll say about this is shockingly specific to the mental health, you know, domain. And what I think is important here is not that advisors know how to be therapists. I would never encourage that we don't want you to be therapists, but there may be some clients where there are some indicators or red flags that having maybe just some like high level knowledge of like knowing, okay, if a client is anxious, right? Like maybe what are some of the just kind of base level like signs of, you know, okay, they're very anxious. And what should I do? What is my role? What is the advisor's role in this? Uh, knowing how to, I'm very, very big on knowing how to refer to mental health professionals specifically. And I think that every single firm out there should have a list of mental health referrals, people that they refer to and know how to refer to. So, you know, even we've been talking a little bit just kind of about physical health, you know, stuff like that, but also on the mental health side of things too. Even like neurodivergence like ADHD, you know, if you have a client that's ADHD, planning with them is going to be different. And so you don't have to be an expert on ADHD, but it's important to maybe at least be aware of and to know and to maybe ask questions from an experience standpoint, what is helpful for that client. All right. So last one, impact and legacy for clients. Like how do you contribute to those that you leave behind? And what what what do you want that to look like? Obviously, like some of the things that come to mind are like estate planning and stuff like that, but we're not talking specifically about estate, you know, when it comes to that. That is a piece of it, but there's a whole lot more uh from an impact and legacy place, you know, things like certainly like charitable giving, community building, even like passing down like family values and information. What comes to mind for you when we talk about impact and legacy?

SPEAKER_00 32:34

I think in this area, that idea of having an experience is probably even more front and center, you know, like again, you could ask a client and even maybe their family members, you know, oh, what do you value? And again, this is a good start. We should definitely do that. But what if, you know, there was a tool that you could lead them through that was a values exercise? And so you said, hey, we're gonna have you come in. This is what we're gonna do. You know, here's how we're gonna use it, you know, in relation to your financial plan or when we have these different financial planning meetings, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring it up in this way. You know, so you've you've established that there's a thing that they're gonna do, you know, it's gonna, they're gonna learn something about their family. And then we're we've already established how we're gonna use that. You know, I think that that is a really cool thing, you know, to be able to uh take people through in a similar or related vein, this idea of knowledge sharing. I feel like it's one of your financial planning clients that you've worked with in the past that says not about an inheritance, but a family heritage, something like that, beyond just like the money that we want to pass down. Like, what is the wisdom? What are the stories? I know, because Ashley and I have talked about it, that both Ashley and I have received a gift from our grandparents, her from her grandfather, me from my grandmother. I believe our grandparents did totally different things, but they each wound up uh in one way or another with a book, you know, about their life that was then given, you know, as a gift to the family. And it is one of my most cherished gifts ever. I believe it's my favorite book.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

And like to do something like that, there's so many different things that you could do, you know, but to think about that, like what would that mean? You know, could you bring that up as a part of financial planning, especially because it could just be a book about their life. But if it's a book about their wealth or about the how they want to make financial decisions or, you know, the teachings that they want to pass down, you know, that could be a really cool experience, you know, around wealth and legacy and memorial that that other financial planners maybe are not doing. And or again, like, yes, we need to have all the estate documentation in place. I am not saying that that is not important. It is probably of the most important, but it doesn't have to be just that. It can be much more than that. And the opportunity here, you know, with some of these link back to each other, like this connection with your family, this connection possibly to a broader community, you know, this relates back to relationships and how important those are for a full life. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

I love I love these domains. Yeah, they're so good. I love them. They're so great. They're so awesome. All right, we can sit here and talk more about them, and we will over the coming year, just not right now in this episode. But let's talk a little bit about. I don't do this a whole lot on this podcast. I'm nervous now. You probably should be. Um that's that is wise. Um, that is valid and wise uh to feel that, to feel that way. But let's talk a little bit about what does this maybe look like in terms of how you and I are delivering this, like from an offering standpoint. Because I what I don't want, and and I think you and I both feel very passionate about this, is that we could sit here and talk like cool ideas all day, but that really isn't helpful for advisors who are like, sounds great, and what do I do with this? And so, you know, I think that you and I have, you know, we are excited, uh, equally excited about coming out kind of with this offering to really help support support this. So let's talk about this foundations offering that we're rolling out that covers and and is aligned with these five domains.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

So it's four firms that are somewhere between 200 and 500 million in assets. You know, there's a lot of, thankfully, there's a lot of people out there these days that are like, yeah, that behavioral finance stuff or that, you know, psychology of financial planning stuff's pretty cool. You know, I've learned about it, I like it, it makes sense to me. You know, I feel like I'm doing some of that now. You know, I think about these things regularly when I go into meetings. Like this is for you. You know, we we are really trying to work with firms like that that are wanting to operationalize, systematize, create experiences that are informed by the, you know, research and things like that that Ashley and I know about, but also the clinical work that both Ashley and I have also been a part of, like working with actual humans. So it's not just good ideas, it's ideas that have been put into practice and are well thought out. And so, you know, working with those firms that are wanting to implement and add and feel like they can say, my practice is experience driven more than just I'm aware, you know, of this financial psychology stuff.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and yes, those are the types of firms that that we want and who it is ideal for in terms of like, okay, so what does that look like in terms of a partnership, like working, you know, together? You know, some of this comes out of, you know, so okay, a little story here, story time. So a few years ago, when I envisioned this role of what, you know, fractional like behavioral officer support would look like, there were really these three kind of pillars and that it would this person, this role would support clients, they would support advisors, and they would also support the firm. And, you know, great idea. I have, you know, spent the last three years like trying to figure out what the heck, okay, but what does that like really look like? And a big heart's desire of mine is to be able to provide really what this offering uh it just took me meeting you, Meg, really like to be able to find the clarity. So that's what it is. Yeah, it just took me meeting, meeting you to figure all this out. But in terms of what is it, what does it really look like? We'll be offering like quarterly trainings.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

Those trainings are skill-based. Yeah. This is not good ideas. This is practice. You are gonna come away with, you know, whether it's learning to, you know, use good reflections or it's knowing, you know, the different parts of the trans theoretical model of change, whether or not you could care about that word, I don't care. But like how to really know where somebody is and what they do. You know, there there are so many great communication skill building. And we have really tried to focus all of the CE, not just like, hey, this is a cool idea, but this is a skill that you can practice and hone.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. The trainings will be quarterly trainings for, you know, for firms that are focused on on that. We'll also be um offering a client-facing webinar, um, you know, under that kind of client support uh lens is being able to bring a client-facing webinar for your for your clients. And going back to just the experience, like, you know, aspect of it, it's really helping create a different kind of financial planning experience that you don't have to do. Uh, we do that.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Right. I think that that, I mean, Ashley and I have both done those. Like different firms have asked us to like, hey, come and talk about, you know, positive psychology or hey, come and talk about legacy. And we've done that. And the cool thing that happens is, you know, we've we've been talking now for 45 minutes about how you should, you know, work to create experiences and we're gonna help you do that and the different ways to do that. Well, one really fun thing is to have me or Ashley come, we talk, then the client says, Oh, I didn't even think of it like that. And then they call you and then they say, Hey, can we have a meeting about this or can we talk about it like this? And so you don't necessarily always have to be the one to be bringing it up. You know, we having those couple of custom webinars, you know, designed to be in front of the client, the client will then come and ask you for those things and you will be prepared to do it because of the tools and things like that that are going to be provided by Beyond the Plan. So it's it's cool. It gets them used to us, it gets them used to the idea of financial psychology, which in and of itself, I mean, you don't have to do this, but if you ever wanted to refer to a financial therapist type person, the best thing to do is to have those clients meet a financial therapist so that they don't think it's weird or strange, or maybe they will think it's weird or strange, but you know, they'll they'll self-select out, you know, then fine, it's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Most clients, you know, like my weirdness to enough most of it. I'll I'll knock, I'll knock on with here um yet. Um, but yeah, you know, from an experience standpoint, you know, offering just kind of client-facing webinar, you know, experience, also, you know, monthly case consultation with us, come and ask us all of your challenging case questions in a peer-supported like environment. And let's just talk about the hard things that the non-technical, right, difficult things that, you know, you ask clients like what keeps you up at night? Well, we are asking you what keeps you up at night? What are the challenging client scenarios that, you know, keep your wheels, keep your wheels spinning? Let's let's talk through things like that. And, you know, there's some other things too: white label, client newsletter, other tool access to other tools, um, activities that, you know, Meg and I, you know, will be putting out content-wise, you know, several other things. But we're excited about, you know, this foundation offering. And I guess maybe I didn't mention this, but as an option within that is also access to a financial behavior specialist, you know, like us. So having that, um, somebody that can meet with your clients and just maybe have conversations that aren't on the technical stuff, but are as equally as valuable as well. So we are pumped, really pumped. If I could jump up and down, like and not knock my microphone off and create a lot of difficulty from an editing standpoint, like make like I would do that right now. But we are really, really pumped about this upcoming year. And in that place of excitement, just to kind of wrap, you know, some of this up, we wanted to share this with you. We wanted to be able to come on, talk about this, um, for you to hear it from us, hear our voices, talk about it and explain it and invite you to consider checking it out. You know, we'll be, you know, putting out links for setting up, you know, calls, consultation calls to just ask more about is this the right fit for our firm? Or maybe that's something else, maybe it's not. Maybe, you know, we need something different. Do you have any ideas? Like there's at least, you know, being able to sometimes just have that conversation is helpful and to learn more. So we'll be putting, you know, information like that out there. You know, Meg, as we kind of wrap things up, what do we need to say about these five domains, about what this looks like in terms of how Beyond the Plan is approaching and offering it? What else do we do we need to say about this? What did we miss?

SPEAKER_00 43:55

I I honestly don't know that we missed anything. I'm feeling just pretty, like you said, pretty general. Generally excited about, you know, we again, Ashley and I have both been independently and together working with many advisors over the years in different capacities. And that same idea of like, that's a good idea, but like, how do I really do that? You know, all keeps coming up. And we are both super excited, you know, about working with firms to do just that. One thing that we haven't mentioned is that we keep talking about tools, but something that we will be doing in 2026 is not, I can't even really say that it's tools for advisors. We are going straight, like creating things directly for your clients. Like, and there's going to be different ways to get access to those, but there can be, for lack of a better word, I'm going to call it fun work, I'm not going to call it homework, but there can be whether it's like the five dates that your clients should go on to talk about money, or whether it's a values exercise, or whether it is don't give all the secret sauce away. Uh, we those are two good ones. You know, a lot of tools that we could actually build that would be meant for just any person to do. And that certainly that information could be brought back to the financial advisor, or you could ask about it, knowing, you know, about that the fact that they did it, but that we're really trying to help give them more structure so that that they can come back to you, which I think will be really cool to make tools actually for the clients. And then what's left to the financial advisor is to facilitate and document and consider and conversate about what comes out of the tool means, you know, to the plan and to ongoing planning.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Yeah, we will definitely keep you posted 2026, the rollout for that. But you know, the client-facing aspect is something I am just as thrilled to be doing excited. And some of it is also in service of helping you advisors take some of the load off of you as well. So be looking out for that. So both of us hang out on LinkedIn. Um, you can check out both of us there. Uh, you can check out the Beyond the Plan website, www.beyondthefp.com. You can sign up and subscribe to our uh newly revamped uh monthly newsletter that'll have information, new announcements, where you can find Meg and I. So I just had the um the song from Carmen San Diego just popped into my head. Like, where in the world are Meg and Ashley? Yeah. So um I don't we can wear us, yeah. I don't know if how we get the music to like play behind that. Um, but it would be cool if when they opened up the email and scrolled to that section that that music started playing for sure. So yeah, information like that. You can find us there. We have a YouTube channel. Handle is at Beyond the Plan Solutions. You can check out that where Meg and I will be putting up video content, shorts, longs, mediums. Is that what you call it? I don't know, shorts and long sh mediums. Uh yeah, we'll just be posting videos in whatever form and or size there. Um, I'm gonna let Beg tell you about her substack, Less Lonely Money.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

Well, you also have planning and beyond, like the podcast that we're on right now.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Yeah, yeah. This oh oh yeah, I forgot we were recording this on the actual yeah. This podcast is is great. You should follow it, you should subscribe. We are working hard at trying to get this out there to more advisors globally across the world. So any kind of like, any kind of share, any kind of rating, review, subscribing is super duper helpful. We appreciate all of that support. Meg, why don't you wrap us up with a little bit of LLM uh promos?

SPEAKER_00 47:47

So Less Lonely Money is uh my Substack and um it's an article every month that's free. So anybody can go and subscribe. It doesn't cost anything. And all I talk about is the intersection of money, relationships, feelings. And at this point, by the time you're listening to this, there'll be 12 or 13 articles uh available because it started in 2025. I also have a paid version uh that is definitely geared towards financial planners. So each article essentially has a sister article. And the sister article has within it what could be a client-facing newsletter. So if you liked that topic, many of them are evergreen, and you're like, oh, that's a cool idea. I would like to send this out, you can. And with that, it then also has a like, if the client called and said, Hey, I read that newsletter and got me thinking, it has an idea for like how to turn that into a meeting. So it's got questions to ask, different meeting flow that would allow you to kind of talk about or around, facilitate a discussion on that particular idea. So it's definitely an advisor-facing tool that's got some great content, great discussion, uh, and an optional newsletter if you want it. Or if you just really don't like reading my really, really long newsletters because they do tend to be anywhere between 3,500 to 4,500 words. You can read the thousand-word version in the pade.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

So yeah, I like to read it over coffee. There are a few coming up that I'm not going to not going, I'm not going to say it, but I'm gonna, I'm not gonna be able to read them over coffee. It might have to be an alcoholic beverage. Um I'm pumped about it. I'm still pumped about it, but at least I know. Like I just need to change up when I'm reading it. It's fantastic, all of the writing uh and resources that Meg puts out to make sure that you follow her there. As we are wrapping things up, I want to extend a big, huge thank you to all of you who are listening and who have been listening all along the way. Thank you so much for your support. Not only in just, you know, this podcast, but also the work that both Meg and I do and in this collaboration. Uh I think I speak for both Meg and I and saying that we truly, truly appreciate it. It is very, very meaningful there. And, you know, hey, look, we this was a different episode. And so I know that we threw a lot of things out there. I think they're awesome. We think that they're awesome. We think that they're great. If there are questions that come up as a result of it, we'd love to just have a conversation with you. So um we'll make sure that we put links in the show notes there as terms of how you can connect in contact with us. We'd love to stay connected with you. And look, I know that I typically wrap things up just by uh, you know, sharing all the great resources. I know we've already, we've already done that where you can find us. Um, Meg, any last parting words before we uh before we jump off here? I think we've covered everything.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Let's have a kick-ass 2026.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Okay. Yeah, I'm cool with that. Let's do it. Yeah, yeah. And with that, my friends, thank you. Thank you again for allowing Meg and I into your mind and into your ears. As you go out into your week, be sure to remember that finances don't have feelings, but your clients do. Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond. Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond. I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more advisors like you who are dedicated to making a difference. For more resources, tips, and to continue the conversation, visit our website at beyond thefp.com. You'll find articles, tools, and information about upcoming episodes designed to support your journey and practice. Stay connected with us on social media and never miss an update. Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn. And remember, the best way to grow is to keep learning and sharing. Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.