Navigating Identity and Change in Finance

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It's not the what is the mark that I necessarily am going to leave on the world? It's what is the intention behind what it is that I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the podcast where financial advising meets the art of meaningful conversations. I'm your host, Ashley Kwame. As a certified financial behavior specialist and a passionate advocate for personal growth, I'm here to help you elevate your practice and deepen your connections with clients. In each episode, we dive into the intersection of psychology, therapy, and financial advising. You'll discover practical strategies, insightful stories, and expert interviews that will empower you to not only excel in your profession, but also thrive in your personal life. Together, we'll explore the human side of financial planning, from understanding client emotions to mastering the nuances of effective communication. We'll also focus on your own growth because the best advisors are those who are continually evolving. Get ready to transform your practice and yourself. This is Planning and Beyond. Why is understanding your client's identity helpful to the planning process? How can you help and support your clients when there is a change of identity? Pull up a chair and grab a notepad, my friend. We are diving in today. Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show dedicated to helping you deepen your relationship with your clients and yourself. I'm your host, Ashley Kwame. Today I'm joined by Lindsay Troxel, founder and head coach of our coaching initiative. For those of you who may not know Lindsay, one, that's a shame. Uh, but she is a certified life coach, speaker, and practice management consultant. Lindsay, welcome to the show. I'm so glad to have you here.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

I'm thrilled to be here as well. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Absolutely. So I know that we're going to go over some fantastic content today, but I actually would like to start instead of with the content with you and would love for you to share with our listeners a little bit more about your own professional journey because I think, you know, as we were talking about before we hit record, there's absolutely some relevance here to what we're going to be talking about today. So, Lindsay, take us through, uh, take us through your journey.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Well, first of all, I'm grateful that it's you that I'm opening up with uh kind of the world about this journey. Um there's there's a lot, I just feel so safe having conversations with you. So, first of all, thank you for that. The friendship that we've built is pretty incredible. So I'm gonna share some components of my journey that I haven't shared publicly ever before. And the reason for that is that it really has shaped the work that I'm doing on identity with advisors, with their team members, and with their clients. And so, you know, my journey started in the beginning, like it does for everybody. But my dad died when I was five. Um, my mom remarried at eight. My youngest brother was born when I was 10. He was diagnosed with autism when I was 12. So I was a caretaker at home. You know, I was really being tapped at a very young age to help others. And so when I went off to college, um, I didn't really know what I wanted to do at first, but my family runs a real estate agency. And so my grandfather said, you know, you should go off to school to study entrepreneurship. And I was like, you know what? Business isn't everything. That sounds like a great idea. So I did. And when I came home after college, I was supposed to take over the family business, not immediately. I was supposed to be integrated into the family business, right? So I got my real estate license. I developed a business plan. And one day I went and I sat down with my uncle, and I was like, here are all my grand ideas. What do you think? And he looked at me, and the way that, you know, this is over 20 years ago, so specifics are a little bit fuzzy at this point in time. But what I remember was interpreting what he said as being, you're never gonna have anything to do with the running of this business. What makes you think that this plan that you've built is anything that I'm interested in? And even if you were going to buy the business at some point in time, you wouldn't have enough money to do so. At 21, I was pretty crushed, right? My identity, who I thought that I was supposed to be based up to that point in time, which was very much shaped by the people in my life and my experiences, my identity was completely shattered at that point in time. And I was like, I gotta figure out what I'm supposed to do with my life. So I went to work for an insurance company, one of the most well-known in the industry. And I was a financial rep for a year. And I remember very vividly walking into my managing partner's office and saying, I don't want to be a financial advisor. This isn't what I want to do. What I want to do is I want to help other advisors and I want to help people at a bigger level figure out how to run their businesses so that they fall in love with who it is that they're working with and the way that they are building their business to support their life. And that was a massive light bulb moment for me. But I also remember my managing partner being like, if you don't go down this path of being a financial advisor, your life isn't going to be as big as you want it to be. This is the only path for you. And that was one of those moments where I was like, this is what it feels like to have somebody else tell you that your dreams aren't worthy. Right. And so that started to begin to shape who I was. Um, you know, obviously combined with everything else that had already happened in my life, but that started framing the work that I've done for the last 20 years. And throughout my career, I've worked inside of an insurance agency, I've worked inside of an independent broker dealer, I've worked inside of a custodian, I've worked inside of a money manager, and I've worked inside of a private consulting firm. And each time through that course of the 15 years, I felt continuously being dismissed and judged and unsupported and unfortunately harassed. Um, and there have been these moments in time where I would use words like toxic masculinity and psychologically unsafe. And so that has built this desire inside of me to help people understand some of that disconnect, right? My challenges weren't necessarily coming from the external world around me, right? They were coming from the fact that I was in misalignment with who I was and what the world wanted from me, and then how I chose to handle that disconnect. So it's a long story to say that the work that I'm doing today, my opening of my own business, I had to do two things. One, I had to start changing the way that I was thinking about being an employee in the industry, yet another identity that I actually did not align with. I've always been an entrepreneur as part of my identity. I've never been an employee, but people have always wanted me to be an employee, right? So there was so much burnout and so much disconnect and so much just pulling at me from directions that weren't making me feel good. And then the second thing that I recognized that I could do is I could change my circumstance. And for some people, that's not possible, right? A change of identity has to actually come more from just changing how you are perceiving the situation that you're in. But sometimes you can change the circumstance. So I was like, you know what? I don't need to be an employee. I can be an entrepreneur. So again, the whole thing kind of came together because I saw how important it was to help people relieve some of the burnout and the disconnect that they themselves are experiencing.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

I'm, you know, one, just very humbled and kind of awestruck, at least a little bit by your vulnerability. Um I think that it's incredible. Uh and I appreciate you sharing that. I'm trying not to get emotional, like talking about it, uh, too, recognizing that um I'm kind of the host. So like I'm supposed to lead this. And if I get really emotional, um, like I may not lead this show effectively. Uh so pardon me, friend. Uh, it feels a little dismissive to keep going, but I also know like that's what we're here for, right? Is to keep going. And listening to everything that you've talked about, specifically this phrasing around misalignment, right? With you know, who I am and like what I'm doing, like that's a huge disconnect that I would imagine. And maybe this is um maybe I'm overstating this here, but I would imagine almost everyone has at some point or time in their life felt at least a little bit of that, right? Feeling like who I am and what I'm doing, it's not jiving well, and there is that internal friction that tends to play out. And of course, then how we manage that looks like it looks a lot different, right? So share with us maybe here a little bit how, you know, I know kind of some of the work that you are doing now, but there's a positive, right? Kind of happy ending here, right? In terms of how you've taken, taken that and talk to us a little bit maybe around how you've taken that misalignment. How have you transformed that today into just, you know, some of the credentialing, the studying, like all of those things.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

I think that's the power story here, right? It's the none of the things from my past have to define me in a negative way. I can learn, I can grow. And all of that has led to, you know, me going and studying at the Human Performance Institute at Johnson ⁇ Johnson, really understanding the depth of the energy that we bring to the table, how we can reach our peak performance as humans, right? If we are paying attention to our physical energy, our emotional energy, our mental energy, our spiritual energy, and all of those things are aligning for us, we can show up as our best selves. Um, you know, taking into consideration how trauma informs conversations that we have and being credentialed as a trauma-informed life coach, um, all of the cognitive behavioral science and the backing and the understanding of how you can help somebody to transform what they are thinking and feeling and how that's showing up in alignment or misalignment with their actions. Um, and then lots and lots of nervous system work, right? So I think sometimes when people tell their stories, it's so easy to fall into the, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry that all of this stuff happened to you. For me, I'm like, all of this stuff happened for me, right? If I think about my life purpose, and this is going towards what we want to help advisors figure out from themselves and also to help them figure out with their clients. It's like when I think about my purpose, I was put here so that I can help other people navigate this space and find out what's important to them instead of looking to these external sources that are so focused on creating the shoulds and the shouldn'ts and, you know, everything that causes us to feel that continuous burnout. So it really has transformed into me working with financial advisors, specifically typically female advisors that are feeling as though, you know, inside of the financial services space, there this environment was not designed for us. Doesn't mean that we don't deserve to be here, doesn't mean that we don't forge the way, doesn't mean any of that, but it wasn't necessarily designed for us and it hasn't always been as welcoming or as kind. And so when we think about how we're showing up in this industry and what we want for ourselves and what we want for our businesses, um, or female entrepreneurs that are serving the advisor community, you know, we're trying to break free from this system and heal things like burnout and disconnection and overwhelm and confusion and doubt, right? Or being in that functional free state. So it's it's so important to take this work, absorb it into, if you are a financial advisor, absorb it into your world, do your own deep dive on who you are and how you think the external world perceives you and what they want from you, and find out your areas of misalignment so that then you can support your clients in the most powerful way. It's a pretty cool way to look at this.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Yeah. Episode six, we talked with Brian Portnoy of Shaping Wealth, who I know that you are also friends and connected too. And you know, one of the things that I respect very much and love about their work is similar to what you're saying here, is starting with the advisor first and figuring out you and just how that translates then to interacting and working with your clients, uh, that kind of work. So, Lindsay, I want to kind of pull us back a little bit because there may be some people listening who are like, whoa, that got deep real fast. Like, which is pretty typical of our conversations um outside of here. Um, let's pull back for just a second and maybe talk kind of more higher level around what is this concept of identity?

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah, identity is such a huge framework. And um I'll give you the high level first, and then we're gonna walk through each of the different pieces that kind of go into this concept.

Exploring Identity and Purpose in Finance

SPEAKER_00 15:06

So when I think about identity, I think about it in terms of a continuum, a circle. So identity being who you are, then flows into values, so what you value, and then it goes into behaviors or like how you're showing up in the world. And then that leads into purpose. And sometimes we think that purpose is like this massive, I'm gonna save the world, or you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna feed all of the hungry, right? It's this massive purpose thing that has to mean something to millions of people. That's not what this is, right? It's more about what is your intention? What is the force behind your own why? Like, why does any of this matter to you? So I think about it in those four areas, right? So identity is at the top of that kind of, you know, if you're dropping in. So identity is again, who you are. Are you a mother? Are you a daughter? Are you a caregiver? Are you an entrepreneur? Are you an employee? Like, what are some of the roles that you hold in the world? And these roles can be things that you have intentionally chosen, or they can be roles that have been thrust upon you by the outside world, right? Society, your family, um, politics, religion, like all of these external forces that are telling you who you're supposed to be and the role that you're supposed to play. So when we start with identity work, we really dive into what are the differences there? What are the roles that you currently are taking on that maybe weren't things that you picked yourself? And then what are some of the things that you want to intentionally own as your own roles in the world? And so that's where, you know, if I think about mine, mine are partner, coach, woman, uh, sensitive, neurodivergent, and entrepreneur, right? And that entrepreneur is the one that got me in trouble for the longest time. Was that true role of like, I'm fundamentally unemployable. And I knew that about myself so long ago, but it wasn't until recently that I pulled that trigger. So, you know, the identity piece again is really we figure out who we are and then we go into what do we value? What do we value? What do we value things like time or connection or health, right? If you look at the identities that you have and the roles that you play, typically we'll see values that are associated with each of those identities. Sometimes we have overlaps, and that's amazing because that makes you feel so much more connected. But the values are really what then help us determine how do we behave? How do we show up? Right. So, you know, think about things like what are you spending your time on? What are you spending your money on? What are you spending your energy on? How are you showing up in the world? And then that moves into that purpose piece. And that's why it all matters, right? So it's our intention, our drive, our motivation, our purpose. So, you know, again, we think that that purpose has to be big, but for me, it's oftentimes like live each day to the fullest or experience uh things with the people that I love. Like that can be enough purpose to drive you on a daily basis if that feels truly connected to your identity.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

I love this wheel concept um that that you have. And as I'm listening to you walk through it, I'm reminded of some of Dan McAdams' work around like narrative um identity and like story. Uh, and you know, how he talks about that um, you know, people we develop our identity or construct them, if you will, uh, through the stories that we tell ourselves, right? And you gave some of these examples of the stories that we tell ourselves and how that goes on to form our identities and thus then how that uh goes on to impact our behavior, what we do, um, but also beyond that, just our own general psychological well-being as well. So it feels very much like a story here uh that we're walking through when we talk about developing and understanding that concept of identity.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

It's exactly what it is. It I love the idea of it's a story, it's a narrative, right? It's it's something that you can really sink your teeth into and it evolves over time, right? I think that's the other thing that's so important here is that none of this work is chiseled in stone. In order for it to truly evolve, you know, we go through so many different transitions throughout our lives, whether it's, you know, coming out of college and getting your first job or having your first child or, you know, um transitioning from one career to another or loss of a parent, right? There's so many different transitions and so many different roles that we take on, so many different identities that we have to juggle. But the thing that we typically don't do is stop and question which one of these identities do I actually want to claim for myself that then is going to dictate the rest of how I show up. Right. We just kind of accept the roles that we've been handed.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Yeah. Yeah. Which is understandable, right? You know, we kind of live on autopilot, I think, for the most part. And, you know, to become intentional requires you to stop and land the plane, right? And, you know, or as I like to do, tell Clayton to stop in the car and be like, we gotta figure out where we are. Like, where are we going? I cannot navigate us while also moving, like we need to stop so that I can get my bearings and understand what is going on here.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Are we even going in the right direction right now?

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah, usually we are not. Um, usually we are not, but you know, coming off of autopilot, like pausing, like it's just not something that we're super great at, like across the board, understandably so. So let's shift into how this work around identity. Values, purpose, right? All how does all of this show up in financial services? How does this land in an advisor's office?

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Yeah. So really, there are three different ways that it shows up, right? So it shows up for the advisor, being able to do that own identity work so that you know whether or not you are aligned with the things that you want to be aligned with. Um, it shows up for your team, right? Because they're humans wandering around in the universe, having their own thoughts and feelings. And then it shows up for your clients. So we we see this across the board. There's plenty of research, and I highly recommend maybe we can link some of this stuff too in the show notes, but like the 2023 Kitsis advisor well-being study, right? So if we look at this, you know, that average well-being is is down, right? Average well-being is 6.84 out of 10. And then we see for certain groups that well-being is down. So women, minorities, next gen, people are just not feeling great. So we have the evidence out there for being needing to do some of this work and understand where this disconnect is coming from. Why are people feeling burnt out? Why are they overwhelmed? Why are they not feeling joy? Why are they not feeling purpose? All of that. And then if we look at the client side of things, we have research done by Fidelity, right? Where you look at just simply the value stack. So 68% of next gen or 68% of what next gen wants from their financial advisor is help with goals, peace of mind, and fulfillment. That right there means that if we can tap in and understand who they are, like think about it. Everybody knows a heck of a lot more about me and what drives and motivates me now. If I were your clients, and this actually was a conversation that I had with my financial advisor when I first sat down with him. Uh, he happens to be my life partner now. So, Corey, before he was my human, he was my financial advisor. And I will tell you, I did not make it easy on him because I was like, you're asking me the wrong questions. I don't, let's not talk about my risk tolerance. Like, I get it, we have to talk about that. But talk to me about how I can align myself with what I want out of life. I want to create this bigger world for myself where I feel truly connected in addition to my money and how my money needs to work for me. Be a thought partner. Be somebody I can come to. You know everything about my financial situation. Help empower me by understanding who I am and what I can do. So we've got so much evidence in the financial services world for how this work can be impactful. But um, I think a lot of people are scared to make the leap.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Hey friends, we'll be right back with the episode. But before we do, I wanted to take a quick second to let you know about what we do at Beyond the Plan and how we support financial advisors who are committed to growth. At Beyond the Plan, we specialize in integrating financial and client psychology to enhance your advisory practice. From client meeting facilitation, advisor training and coaching, even client onboarding strategies. We are your implementation partner, a dedicated in-house expert. Visit our website at beyondthefp.com to learn more about our services and how we can collaborate to elevate your practice. Together, let's go beyond the plan to deliver meaningful client experiences that foster long-lasting relationships. Now, back to the episode. Understandably so, especially amongst advisors. They may not know how, um, feeling a sense maybe of not being competent. Um, they may not even be aware that that's what is what is needed. And yeah, I get that. I think that's some of the work that you and I do. Um, right, and uh advocating for the need for that and helping and coming alongside advisors to be partners um in that way and in that space. So all of this shows up in three ways, right? On the advisor, for the advisor, within their team and within their clients. Going back to what you were talking about with regards to well-being and noting the kids' study uh there let's break that down just a little bit to make that connection around lower levels of well-being and how that's connected to identity. Because that may not be that there may not be a direct connection um there. And and so I want to walk through that because I would imagine that there are advisors listening who may be thinking about particular clients who are going through certain life transitions, phases of life, or maybe even they're coming into their office um after a life event or transition, right? And that level of well-being may be a lot lower than what is desirable. Let's connect that low level of well-being to identity.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Yeah. So, you know, for we'll start with the client, right? So the low level of well-being and identity for me kind of comes from that place of fulfillment, right? So if I don't know what I want from my life because I haven't intentionally decided the roles that I want to play and what I value and how I'm gonna show up in the world and what that drive is for me, right? Then how am I ever going to truly get fulfillment in life? So if we're just thinking about, let's again go back to the fidelity study here, right? They want um fulfillment, which is like the ultimate. And so that's what we've just talked about. They also want peace of mind, right? So in terms of identity, what you're doing is you're helping them to create a system of understanding how to hold themselves accountable, right? So it's it's so structured. It's identity, values, behaviors, purpose. And so now you're helping them to create an actual structure that they can come back to and check in with, which then is going to make them feel more in control and give them that peace of mind. And then it also ties them back to their goals, right? Again, giving them alignment to what their daily habits need to be in order to have more fulfillment and peace of mind. So you're creating this entire system for them, which before they probably had all of this floating around it up in their head. And that's usually what I hear when working with my clients is intellectually, I knew all of this stuff, but I've never had somebody help me bring it into such focus in such a simple way that now allows me to tap in and use this.

Navigating Identity Evolution in Finance

SPEAKER_00 29:40

You know, if I think about a financial plan, one of the worst things that you can do is do a financial plan and then what? Stick it in a drawer, right? Like business planning. We're gonna make this amazing plan and then we're gonna do nothing with it. So that's what you're doing here is you're helping to create more of that system connection to the overall plan so that people start to be more consistent. But that's really where it comes from, right? The lower levels of well-being. And when I look at it for you know, advisors, it really comes into play when let's say that you're an advisor that's trying to do something big, right? You're trying to accomplish something different than what you've accomplished to this point in time. Maybe you're defining a niche market, maybe you are becoming more vocal, you're you're you know, stepping out into the world and being your own loud, as as uh Matt likes to say. Um and so you're trying something new. Well, the moment you start doing bigger things, that's the moment that somebody else is gonna come out of the woodwork and tell you that, you know, what you're trying to do isn't the right thing or you're showing up in the wrong way. They have so many opinions. So others, other people's expectations are gonna start up to show up when you start to do more and show up more and try to live a bigger life. So you've got to start to, again, go back to your own identity to understand that even if the world is telling you that you're not doing it right, if it's aligned with who you are and how you want to show up and who you want to be and the mark that you want to leave, just close the window and don't listen to what everybody else is saying. Because your trust in yourself matters more than anybody else's noise.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And easier said than done, though, right? Yeah. Yeah. You and I can talk about it like it's so easy. But I think we both know and realize the reality of doing some of this can also be years in the making as well from, you know, from a journey place. So let's talk then a little bit about team because you mentioned the three ways, right? That this yeah. So talk to me through. We kind of did the client and like advisor, and but I'm curious about the team aspect.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah. So part of the way that this is showing up, you know, if you're if you look at your team and you're kind of questioning, A, is well-being down and uh B, could maybe my team benefit from some of this identity work, you want to be looking for signs of burnout. Um, so that typically looks like disengagement. You know, if you've got somebody who's regularly showing up to meetings and having lots of ideas and now they're not, that could be a sign of disengagement. Um, response times. If there's any sort of shift where you've had somebody who operated a certain way before and now they're not, either they're just burnt out and it's because there's some sort of disconnect between who they are and what's being expected of them or what they're thinking is being expected of them, right? Uh, it can show up as time management ish issues, kind of the functional freeze. My favorite way to describe functional freeze is like if you're sitting on the couch and you're watching TV, but you're also scrolling on your phone, that's a great like mindless scrolling.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Oh, I'm in functional freeze right now because I can't even just sit here and watch TV. I also need this other stimulus in my life in order for me to do something. Um, low mood, toxic behaviors, squabbling with other people, uh, you know, inappropriate behaviors. Um, also looking to others to figure out how they're supposed to respond. So instead of being able to tap into their own agency, they're constantly either mimicking others. And then as a result of mimicking somebody else, they're getting a very unwanted result or um, you know, constantly coming to you because they are stuck in indecision, right? And they can't, they don't feel like they can have their own back when they're making their decisions.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

That's kind of what it shows up like, but it's it's a perfect indicator to say maybe we need to help this person tap more into their identity, you know, and and see where is their misalignment for them.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Yeah, yeah. So that's maybe kind of what it looks like in present time. Let's talk about maybe with respect to clients. How does this evolve? How does identity evolve over the time span of a client relationship? How does it shift? How does it change?

SPEAKER_00 34:41

It really depends on the client, right? You know, there are some pretty typical transitions. You know, there's age-based transitions that people go through. Um, you know, obviously retirement or what I like to call reinventment, that next phase of what you're going to be doing when you are leaving one current, you know, way of operating and going into another. Um I mentioned some

Navigating Identity Transitions in Finance

SPEAKER_00 35:08

of them earlier, right? You know, when you have children, when children leave the house, when you are caregiving for a parent, the loss of a parent. Um, there are so many different shifts that take place, which is part of why, you know, as part of your annual planning process, I would be checking in on this every single time that you are, if your client is growing and evolving, right? And they're having relationships with other people and they're just simply trying to navigate their own lives, they're gonna have these moments where their identities shift. They might learn something new. So they're gonna be navigating all different phases of their lives and so many different opportunities for you to check in and help them reclaim versus just having identities thrust upon them. Doesn't say that it doesn't happen, right? There are points in time in our lives where you know, there's a difference. I'll use caregiving as an example here, right? There's a difference between believing that you have to be the caregiver for somebody and choosing to provide caregiving services. And both of those are different identities. And if you can help your client kind of create some of those separations, and that this is you shouldn't be getting super deep. I just want to say that, right? You know, you know, Ashley and I, therapist, coach, there are times where you want to be outsourcing this work when it goes beyond your scope of expertise. But you most certainly can be checking in and asking the question of, you know, as this caregiver role right now, what are things that I can be doing to support you so that you don't find yourself burning out?

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah, that is a great. Or what can we put in place? How can we use right, maybe your financial resources? What things can we put in place here, right, to help support, to help support you? You know, one of the places that I see a lot of identity shift and change, as I'm sure you do too, is in the reinventment, as you call phase, the retirement phase, right? And this would make a lot of sense, especially if that person has been operating or part of their identity, a big part is that of a professional, maybe an entrepreneur, a business owner, maybe a financial advisor, uh, you know, as well. And, you know, I think that when we transition into a new chapter or to a new chapter, you know, it poses almost this threat, right, to our identity. And what does our brains do when we perceive threat, right? It's it's gonna respond and you know, oftentimes it fights against, and that can impact decision making. We see that a lot with um business owners, you know, trying to sell their business. And some of the, let's just say maybe they are not so rational decisions that go into selling a business. And I think that that's a very obvious spot where an identity shift is being threatened because it will be forced to change, likely. Uh, and there's some resistance and maybe some not so great decision making, financial decision making.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Absolutely. And and I've got an instance recently where um one of one of the end clients that I have been working with, one of the clients of the advisors that's part of my program, um, they came into our discussion about identity, and this person is about to retire. And really has in the past tied his identity to the fact that he was a high-powered executive inside of a large pharmaceutical company. And he's like, This is who I am. This is how I show what am I gonna do every single day if I'm not this? And I I just simply I was like, What who would you say that you are? If you had to pick some core roles or like words that would describe who you are at your core, what would they be? And he said, um, father, uh giver and faithful. And I was like, in if you were to think about your role as an executive inside of this company, is there any overlap there or is there anything that that matters to you that you are going to be letting go of? And he goes, No, actually, I'm gonna be able to step more powerfully into those three things that actually matter to me when I leave. He's like, those things are actually getting sacrificed right now. And so it was it was that quick, the turnaround for him to go from this place of, I am so worried about this next transition and what's gonna happen to me. And like fundamentally, it's gonna change who I am to, oh wait, no, it's not gonna change who I am. And in fact, I'm gonna be more aligned with who I truly am meant to be and what I what I value and what I care about than I have been up to this point in time.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Yeah, I love that, which is a great segue into more of the tactical things that advisors can be doing kind of within maybe each of these places. So walk us through, Lindsay, you know, kind of from starting with like the values. What are some things that advisors specifically can be doing? Uh, maybe there are things we've already mentioned and talk about, but walk us through that.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

So the practical framework, right? And this could be happening during a prospect meeting. Um, I coach teams to create their own onboarding process that kind of has more of that life planning slant where we talk more about identity and values and behavior, right? So uh this could be during your prospecting process, your onboarding process.

Identity, Values, Behaviors, Purpose Framework

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Um, it also could be during your annual review where you could bring back in some of these questions and then have a way to systematically check on them on an ongoing basis. But uh, you want to start with identity, right? Ask the question: who are you? What are some of the identities that maybe you have been have been thrust upon you by your family and society and others that expect things from you? What are some of those roles that you have taken on? And then what are the roles that you want to intentionally claim for yourself? And then maybe ask them the question what are some of the roles that you want to let go of? So you've got the ones that have been given to you. There's the ones that you want to claim. What do you maybe want to let go of? So if you start there, right, you understand who they are. And that's probably also going to involve a lot of their backstory. You know, how did you get here? What, what, what were some of the things that have happened that that caused you to take on some of that responsibility, right? And then from there, step number two is now we dive into the values. So under each identity, what are the values that support that identity? So again, if I'm looking at my entrepreneur, some value that I have there is time. And so then if I next step down, what are the behaviors that support the value of time? Well, I exchange value for money. I don't exchange time for money, I exchange value for money. So when I'm thinking about the activities that I do and how I build my programs and all of the ways that I interact, my my way of being supports both what I value as well as who I am. Okay. So this is how you start to create some of those connections. So that third piece is behaviors, right? So the questions that I typically ask to uncover some of the behaviors that support the values are things like where do you spend your time, money, and energy? So this will start to get into ways that you can even tie this to your financial plan, right? If somebody is not aligning the way that they're spending their Time, money, or energy, you've got a huge opportunity to help bring them into alignment.

unknown 44:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

If they're saying if there's confusion, right? Because I've sat in on several meetings where, you know, clients have that like shock of, oh my gosh, I did not realize that we were spending this percentage or this much on taking out on subscriptions or whatever it is on this thing that I actually don't really value.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

It's not really aligned with super additive to my life.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

I would rather, and that is such an important thing. Again, I think about some of the common ways that some advisors approach, not everybody, but some, when you're especially looking at like cash flow planning or budgeting, right? It's the let's look at this. And if you're spending it, chances are you we're just going to account for the fact that you're spending everything. But some people, in order to change who they are and how they're showing up and how they're more powerfully connected to their goals, is to actually look at the, you know, is my spending in alignment with who I am?

unknown 45:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Because I'm totally down for slashing a portion of my spending somewhere if I can truly see how it's not adding to my life. So I remember the first time I had to go through budgeting, I was like, this, I'm just being told that this is how much you make, this is how much you're spending. So, you know, everything works. Your plan works. But I'm like, but could it work better? Yeah. If it was aligned with what I actually care about. That's what I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yeah. One of the things I love about this process, and I know, you know, we haven't gotten to purpose yet, but one of the things I really appreciate and I think is valuable is starting actually with the who you are piece. And I say that because I think a lot of what is coming out into kind of the industry from this, you know, if we want to call it human-first, uh human-focused, whatever it is, movement, whatever the trendy word is now for it, is starting with values. And I think that, you know, don't get me wrong, that is so important to understand. But I hear you, and it makes sense to me where maybe first, before we get to values, we should really talk about who you are as a person and what is that identity aspect? What are the roles? And what of those do we want to keep? What do we, as you said, what do we want to claim? What do we maybe want to, you know, shed or rewrite a narrative around? Yeah. And then let's focus on our values. And then let's get to creating, right? Kind of that the behaviors and the purpose. So I I really like this because I think it um offers a more complete and whole framework for working with the person, the human.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

And that's such an important piece, right? We uh Brian Port and I and I talk about this all the time when we're talking about identity work. It's we start with who, right? No judgment to Simon Sinek and starting with why, but like you've got to start with who first and then understand it's like identity is the who, the values are the what, um, the behavior is the how, and then the purpose is the why. And so you've gotta,

Exploring Purpose and Self-Reflection

SPEAKER_00 47:51

whenever I started with the values, I always felt like there was something missing. It was like, but why do I value these things?

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Where does that come from? Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

That would be my that would be my question. Like with clients, is like, okay, well, where does that come from? Exactly. And so that's what this work does. It takes it one step backwards with something that I feel has always been left out.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

So walk us through purpose here, the last one, and then and then we'll we'll keep moving.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

Yeah. So again, purpose is the why, you know. So why does this matter? Why does all of this matter? Why does showing up this way matter? Why do these values matter? Why does this identity matter? Why does any of this matter? So it's not the what is the mark that I necessarily am going to leave on the world? It's what is the intention behind what it is that I'm doing? What is my drive? Um, so I think that this is the piece that oftentimes is like, we've got to go somewhere huge. We don't. It could be as simple as my purpose is to be more connected with the people that I love. Or it's to help others, like for me, my purpose is to help pull the greatness out of others, to help others create systems and structures that work for them instead of prescribing to something that works for everybody else, right? That's my purpose. And so that's why all of the other things are so critically important to me. And that I have to show up as an example of what is possible and an example of what imperfection looks like. Like that's all purpose. So what you do here as the advisor working with the client is help them kind of distill this into a one-word sentence that becomes somewhat of a mantra for them. And so again, it could be, you know, to be more deeply connected with the people that I love, uh, to show up and put a smile on other people's faces, you know? So it doesn't have to be crazy big. It just needs to be something that drives the intention behind everything forward.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Yeah, I find that simple sometimes is usually the best.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

With things like this. We don't have to get complicated and use fancy words. No, we can just keep it simple. And sometimes those are the most powerful ones, uh, beliefs or mantras, if you will. Totally. All right, Lindsay. So what are maybe some of the signs within the client? So if I've if advisors are like, this is really cool stuff, and I'm kind of driving with what these gals are putting out here, but what what should I be looking for?

SPEAKER_00 50:39

What do I do now? What do I do?

SPEAKER_01 50:42

And what does this look like? What do I do? What does it look like from a client and what are some signs, maybe indicators?

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Yeah. So the first thing I would say is, you know, you have resources available to you that you've never necessarily had before. So reach out to them. People like Ashley, people like myself. Like we are here to help you not only when there are complex client issues that maybe are beyond your area of expertise, but also to help think through what is your own process going to look like. Because just like this identity work, if something is being shoved down your throat that doesn't feel right to you, you're not going to use it. It's not going to be helpful, right? So, in some of these instances, some people can just take this framework and they can run with it. And they're like, cool, it's fine. I've got it. Other people will want to go deeper and figure out something that works for them. So highly recommend that you always reach out to an expert like Ashley or myself to help you through that process, if that's something that you want to do. But when it comes to knowing if like you're in over your head potentially, um, you know, I think you've really got to go back to what are your areas of expertise and what do you feel ethically able to provide? So if clients are really digging deep into areas of trauma, that probably isn't something that you want to get too deep into. You probably do want to outsource and bring in a therapist like Ashley to do some of that work, right? Um, maybe there are core repeating belief systems that a client is not really able to quickly process through and you feel like you're in over your head. Same deal. Ashley, myself, we can totally help you with that. Um one of my favorites is if you stumble upon something that is too closely aligned to something that you've experienced in the past, right? It's so easy for us to get triggered. I was having a conversation with one of the advisors that I'm working with this morning, and she was talking about, again, some of the toxic masculinity that is showing up in our industry. And so I was like, I just need to pause for a second. I want you to know we can totally work on this work together, and we've got to put some of this to the side. And I think that there's a better person that's gonna be suited because I was gonna jump too deep into the pool, right? Like you can't help somebody from drowning if you jump into the pool. You've got to stand outside and then put your hand in and pull them out. And if you are too closely connected, this is what we call holding space, right? But if you are too closely connected and you're entwining some of your stories, you're not gonna be able to support that person. So outsource that. Um also, just simplistically, like sometimes you don't have enough time to hold somebody's hand through a process like this because of the depth that it can get to. So sometimes you're perfectly fine staying at that high level, but there are other times where you're gonna, your client's gonna want to dig deeper, and that's when you should find a partner to outsource them too.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

One of the advisors I work with, she calls it gifting. And she'll say, I'm gifting this session with Ashley to you. Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

Yeah. Yeah. For my my clients, they typically will gift, you know, three sessions. Um, and throughout the course of that work, then the client will take over some of that responsibility, right? Because um, also skin in the game, but part of their fee structure covers the gifting of this type of work.

SPEAKER_01 54:37

Right. Yeah, I love all of that. Yeah. So, Lindsay, we've walked through a brilliant model when it comes to identity, right? And how advisors can lean into that for themselves, how they can lean into it for their teams, how they can lean into it with their clients as well. And a lot of this, as you shared at the very beginning, has directly come from your own journey and your own story around identity, which you so very vulnerably shared. Um, thank you again for that. To wrap us up here, thinking about just your own journey. What are maybe three things that if you could go back and tell younger Lindsay 20 years ago, what are some things, what are those three things that you would tell her?

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Very simply, uh believe in yourself, you are able to do this alone. Um trust your guts and have your own back.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

I love that. Those are like sticky note, like worthy. Like, I'm like, I want to write those down and I want to put those on sticky notes and put them up.

SPEAKER_00 56:03

You know, it's that last one, the first one that I said, the believe in yourself and your ability to do this alone. That one is showing up so much for so many of my clients right now is this belief that they're not able to build whatever it is that they want to build by themselves. So they're looking to find external partners that are then causing a whole bunch of burnout and disconnection from what they truly want. So that one's a big one.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Yeah, yeah. I could see that. I could see that. Well, for all of you out there tuning in, thank you for following and allowing Lindsay and I into your ears and into your mind today. If you'd like to check out more of Lindsay's work, Lindsay, where can they, where can our listeners find you?

SPEAKER_00 56:50

I am on LinkedIn, not as consistently as I should, should be. Sabage. But I actually posted uh recently about how I'm showing up in a way that serves me and feeds my energy and allows me to show up better for my clients. So that's actually a post that would be interesting for people to check out. Um, but then my website, our coachinginitiative.com. So you can just find me on LinkedIn at just Lindsay Troxel, and then yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

We'll have all of that linked in the show notes, Lindsay. Thank you for sharing that and all of your wisdom today. Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond. Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond. I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more advisors like you who are dedicated to making a difference. For more resources, tips, and to continue the conversation, visit our website at beyondthefp.com. You'll find articles, tools, and information about upcoming episodes designed to support your journey and practice. Stay connected with us on social media and never miss an update. Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn. And remember, the best way to grow is to keep learning and sharing. Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.